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Post by carolinec on Nov 17, 2008 11:46:54 GMT
Rog - I've only just seen this today and I was just about to head over to the FC site to register as soon as I've finished reading new stuff here. Don't despair yet! Let's wait and see how things go. I honestly don't know if the Vault has suddenly polarised into those who want to keep things as they were right at the start (long before I came here), and those who want to embrace ALL kinds of horror (and anything else people care to talk about). But don't anyone give up yet, please! Things will sort out one way or another ... ;D
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Post by weirdmonger on Nov 17, 2008 11:48:24 GMT
It's a shame to see polarisation here. I love the core essence archive nature of Vault as I've known it here. You need people here who love that nostalgic core Horror essence even if with variations and extensions. After all, skinheads and westerns are extensions, from which I've learnt a lot even if I'm not interested in them but perhaps I will do so with time. I can't see how that core essence can't continue with a bit of housekeeping. I still complain at the treatment dished out rudely to some loyal members here whose intentions were only good.
Thanks, Rog, for the new site. I shall get over there and join. I don't know if the Small Press Ark needs to go across or not?
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Post by benedictjjones on Nov 17, 2008 12:10:08 GMT
yep, i've joined the FC site as well. i'll still post here as well though.
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Post by weirdmonger on Nov 17, 2008 12:11:30 GMT
I've just put this on the new site: I'm des. Thanks for this site for rationalising topics to help the beloved Vault. I see the two sites as symbiotic and I hope things will be good for all.
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Post by jkdunham on Nov 17, 2008 12:19:57 GMT
f**k**g twating internet.
I've just tried to phone Rog but couldn't get hold of him so we'll have to do this the hard way.
I was only speaking - actually speaking like real people do - to Rog yesterday about the shortcomings of online communication and how easy it is for things to be misunderstood.
Here we bloody go again.
My decision not to be involved with FC anymore had nothing whatsoever to do with Rog personally (someone who I respect greatly and still consider to be a friend) or with his decision to set up the new board. Neither does it have anything at all to do with Vault.
"Personal reasons" I said and personal reasons I meant. Didn't expect to wake up and see it plastered all over here this morning but there you go, I suppose I should've seen it coming what with everything that's been happening here recently. Just bad timing on my part.
I won't speak for KC as he's perfectly capable of speaking for himself but he sent exactly the same email to me. I wasn't sure what he meant so I asked him and he explained. Not directed specifically at either Rog or myself as it turns out. He was just frustrated by developments here and wanted to let off some steam.
So PLEASE can we just put this down to experience and get on with the job in hand. Thank you.
Vault's not dead - it's just a bit tired and emotional.
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Post by jkdunham on Nov 17, 2008 12:43:02 GMT
Vault will save Vault by doing what it's always done - just being Vault. Of course, being Vault, we'll have a bloody strange way of showing it...
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Post by Calenture on Nov 17, 2008 13:37:45 GMT
I've just tried to phone Rog but couldn't get hold of him so we'll have to do this the hard way.... I was out shopping, Steve. It did occur to me that you might have had other reasons than the dissent here, but I decided it needed posting anyway, when I saw the other email. I've counted Ade a friend, and would like to continue thinking of him that way. I just don't have time for disputes about what fiction we should or shouldn't be covering here. We're all entitled to our own opinions on that. People are letting off steam, yes. The receipt of those two emails, frankly, shocked me. And I finally needed to let off steam myself. I make no apologies. I felt that post was necessary. Damn right. Even if we all abandoned the place right now, it would still remain a huge storehouse of information and opinions on horror fiction and other pulp from Victorian times to the present day. Yeah, I'd so much like to see an end to this discussion. It's tiring and boring and there are better things to do. Oh, and Des, your small press ark is welcome at the FC site. And Ade, if you don't mind, I'd like to add your graphic novel there, too, and carry on with the plan to use your illustrations for my story in FC. I don't want to post on this thread again. Like I said. Better things to do. So have we all, I think. Best, Rog
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Post by bushwick on Nov 17, 2008 13:53:47 GMT
Everyone, don't panic. Rog, I will join the FC board and use that to discuss my wares. I am pretty shit at self-promotion these days so it will come in handy. Have always appreciated having the resource of informed opinions at the Workshop, so that's cool.
I'm going to crack on and post some more reviews. I think the next one will be 'Savage' by Paul Boorstin. I think this site should be about no more than 20% 'clever' stuff, and 80% disreputable. We all know a lot of things fall between the two stools (Charles Birkin would spring to mind) but you know what I mean.
I came to this site via a google search. If more people post pulp reviews, whenever a curious reader searches google for an obscure book, this place will show up. They will start reading all the other threads and the archive and then we'll have someone new to chat to. That's what happened with me. Eventually this place could become a resource with, say, reviews of ALL the Hamlyn horrors. As we all know this stuff is woefully underrepresented on the web.
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Post by jkdunham on Nov 17, 2008 13:57:29 GMT
I make no apologies. I felt that post was necessary. Sorry, Rog, but you're wrong. It was quite understandable under the circumstances but it wasn't necessary. This is all getting way out of hand though, isn't it? Arguing about books is one thing, but when people who've got along quite happily for years suddenly start arguing with each other over... I'm not even sure what anymore... then something is clearly not right. Speak to you sometime maybe. All the best, Steve
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Post by franklinmarsh on Nov 17, 2008 13:58:39 GMT
I'm going to crack on and post some more reviews. I think the next one will be 'Savage' by Paul Boorstin. I think this site should be about no more than 20% 'clever' stuff, and 80% disreputable. We all know a lot of things fall between the two stools (Charles Birkin would spring to mind) but you know what I mean. I came to this site via a google search. If more people post pulp reviews, whenever a curious reader searches google for an obscure book, this place will show up. They will start reading all the other threads and the archive and then we'll have someone new to chat to. That's what happened with me. Eventually this place could become a resource with, say, reviews of ALL the Hamlyn horrors. As we all know this stuff is woefully underrepresented on the web. Nice one Noah. That's what it is/was/should be all about.
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Post by killercrab on Nov 17, 2008 14:20:29 GMT
Pasted in, without comment, two emails just received. >>
Modified response:
Like Steve I'm not best pleased a personal email has been run publicly without consent. I doub't anybody would be in fact . You could of easily followed Steve's lead and shot me a mail - 'whassup?' - You're stressed ? - we're all stressed here buddy because it's like a fraggin' civil war here at times. Where's Josiah Hedges when you need him?
Maybe some of us have more extreme views of the forum than others - but hell if we aren't passionate about this stuff what's the point? I'm talking to everybody here not just Rog.I started reading The Witches bk 5 last night - figuring that like some of the boys who dig a review that I'd post something up old vault style. Not a chance now. I'm done.
see ya
KC
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Post by carolinec on Nov 17, 2008 15:37:28 GMT
Oh god, I don't know if this is going to make things worse or better - but it can't get much worse anyway, can it, so here goes ...
Is there just too much testosterone floating around this place or what? Look, Rog and Steve in particular, you guys get in touch with each other by phone, kiss and make up, or what ever it is you fellas do to put things right when things have gone a bit OTT. Yes, I agree private PMs should be private - I think perhaps Rog might agree too once he's reflected on it. I'd like to bash both of your heads together - virtually!
Fact is, though, there IS a lot of passion here - and that's a good thing, it means we CARE. Now, I and probably several others were thinking the Vault was about one thing when it wasn't - that's sorted, finished, no need to harp on about it.
So, how do we move forward? Well, if there really is no hope of the original Vaulters living together happily with the newer ones then maybe two separate - but interlinked - forums is what's required (but not THREE - evileye, where the hell did that idea come from?!). There's a lot of resources here already - it makes sense to keep them where they are. Now, I've been sitting back waiting for the "old guard" Vaulters (for want of a better word) to start posting again - KC has done so - good on him - Pulphack, Justin, etc come back and make the Vault what YOU want it to be.
Rog's new forum could run alongside this with no problems at all - let's try it and see shall we? I've no idea what this distinction over "intellectual horror" and the other horror (I can't call it non-intellectual!) is all about. I don't know what fits into one category or another. Some of you do seem to see this as a definite distinction, but not me - I know what I like and that's what I post about. If that's too "intellectual" as far as some of you are concerned, I can't do anything about that I'm afraid.
Now, for god's sake, bash a few heads together, punch a few brick walls, and then let's start to put things back together again - even if it is on two separate forums until things settle down and we see if we can all live happily together again.
Sermon over ...
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Post by weirdmonger on Nov 17, 2008 15:57:25 GMT
Like that, Caroline. Oh god, I don't know if this is going to make things worse or better - but it can't get much worse anyway, can it, so here goes ... Is there just too much testosterone floating around this place or what? Look, Rog and Steve in particular, you guys get in touch with each other by phone, kiss and make up, or what ever it is you fellas do to put things right when things have gone a bit OTT. Yes, I agree private PMs should be private - I think perhaps Rog might agree too once he's reflected on it. I'd like to bash both of your heads together - virtually! Fact is, though, there IS a lot of passion here - and that's a good thing, it means we CARE. Now, I and probably several others were thinking the Vault was about one thing when it wasn't - that's sorted, finished, no need to harp on about it. So, how do we move forward? Well, if there really is no hope of the original Vaulters living together happily with the newer ones then maybe two separate - but interlinked - forums is what's required (but not THREE - evileye, where the hell did that idea come from?!). There's a lot of resources here already - it makes sense to keep them where they are. Now, I've been sitting back waiting for the "old guard" Vaulters (for want of a better word) to start posting again - KC has done so - good on him - Pulphack, Justin, etc come back and make the Vault what YOU want it to be. Rog's new forum could run alongside this with no problems at all - let's try it and see shall we? I've no idea what this distinction over "intellectual horror" and the other horror (I can't call it non-intellectual!) is all about. I don't know what fits into one category or another. Some of you do seem to see this as a definite distinction, but not me - I know what I like and that's what I post about. If that's too "intellectual" as far as some of you are concerned, I can't do anything about that I'm afraid. Now, for god's sake, bash a few heads together, punch a few brick walls, and then let's start to put things back together again - even if it is on two separate forums until things settle down and we see if we can all live happily together again. Sermon over ...
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Post by Calenture on Nov 17, 2008 16:07:16 GMT
OK, I didn't want to post to this thread again - in the couple of days I've been back, it's been depressing me no end and I've been trying to just leave arguments to others. Obviously I need to make some response now.
The effect of the emails at this time (yeah, bad timing), when I thought I'd provided a solution to at least one of the perceived problems, did shake me up. I reacted to that by posting them. Wrong thing to do? Probably. Do I care? Yes. I've made friends at the Vault, and life's too short for bad feeling.
Personally, I'm not worried if fiction reviews are limited. New sites can always be started to cater to other tastes. Personally I thought an appeal of the site was its wide mix of stuff, but never mind that.
Right now I'm as worried about a knackered car and my work as anything happening here. Do I wish I'd been less rash with my reaction to a couple of messages? Yes. I wish it had been made clear that a message at my box wasn't aimed at me. I'd be even more depressed if we lost Ade from this place. I know you can be as rash as me, Ade. What I'll do is delete that post. And I wish Dem' would delete this whole effing thread.
You might be right about it not being necessary, Steve. But something like that was kind of inevitable.
I don't mind apologising for rashness. Seems there's a lot of that around. Anyway, apologies to both of you.
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Post by David A. Riley on Nov 17, 2008 16:42:35 GMT
I really, really was not going to post on this issue again, but reading through so many posts where people do want the Vault to continue, however different than the way it was heading before, I think there is more than just a glimmer of hope for the future.
Like Rog, "I wish Dem' would delete this whole effing thread."
No truer words could be spoken.
At least some of the unjustifiably bitter language and insults being hurled about at people seem to have ceased now. Some were completely inexcusable at the time.
And, I suppose, Dem was right about how the Vault was changing, especially with so much being entered about new books, about which I was guilty myself (Houses on the Borderland, Shades of Darkness, etc), forgetting that the true purpose of the Vault was to discuss old books - or at least reprints of old books and stories. Though I think Dem was partly guilty of this himself when he covered Steve Jones' Mammoth Books, especially the Mammoth Book of New Horror. The green light was shining quite brightly after that for more of the same.
I hope things settle down now - though I would like to see some comments from Dem, who initiated this whole debate.
It's good to see that some here are still posting material about the old books we love so much.
David
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