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Post by jkdunham on Nov 15, 2008 17:28:50 GMT
I've had a thought. Might help, might not.
If we (by which I mean Dem) are going to try rearranging the board, and assuming we're going to keep this 'last 30 posts' business, might it help alleviate things a bit if all posts not specifically related to the topic in hand, i.e., reviewing and discussing old pulp and horror books, were restricted to members only sections of the board (as The Workshop is now). That way, people could still chat about this and that if they wanted to (and I like a bit of a chat now and again myself) but you'd have to be logged in before you saw any of it. If you just wanted pure unadulterated pulp with no adverts, interruptions or distractons, simply click on 'last 30' before you log in and it's all good. Afterwards, you can always log on and see what else people are saying if you're interested.
It's not ideal but it is one way of sorting the wheat from the chat as it were.
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Post by weirdmonger on Nov 15, 2008 19:00:25 GMT
"The worst thing about new books is that they keep us from reading the old ones." - Joseph Joubert # But there won't be any old books without new books in the first place. I was once a baby, now I'm nearly 61. :-)
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Post by ghostwriter2109 on Nov 15, 2008 19:17:58 GMT
What an interesting thread...and something that I am sure pops up on many other forums from time to time.
I rarely look any further than the Guy N Smith section (for obvious reasons) but the knowledge of a great many in here has had me wandering through a pulp nirvana...and I thank you.
I too have been guilty of flogging the company product or letting folk know of in impending GNS release or development...but because I appreciate that it is a forum and not a marketplace, it's kept short and sharp and points to the company website where the business takes place.
For me, this forum is like a pub...you meet a few folks, share a few tales...but will that bloke who is trying to sell me a rose I don't want, please bugger off.
Should we condemn a writer for plugging themselves? Good god, no...but (there's always a but) when a page of forum interaction is almost hijacked by flash commercials, for me, the message gets lost.
Take a look at page 2 of this thread...it looks like an ad for some book by Screaming Dead...that is not what I personally want to see. And that can be halted by nothing more than a personal pm to stop after the first day...simple.
Trust me, I'd love to flood the forum with commercials, but this is not the place.
Old and new will always be uncomfortable bedfellows, as in the real world. Cliques will form, as like-minded individuals get together...as in the real world. But if you take away what the forum was originally set up for...pulp horror and such...then you take away the heart of the room.
People will come and go, just as a lot of us have thought when we leave a company, we hope it will fail, but it never does. Others replace those who leave. The same problems will crop up again...but change is inevitable.
Set some clear guidelines, not rules, guidelines and nudge folk into line if they step outside too far or in a manner that will offend. And on that score, don't aim for any type of success if you can't deal with negativity...warranted or not...it will come.
In any type of forum where the topics are subjective there will be conflict of some level...that's good.
But you need your Carolines, your David Rileys, your Justin Marriotts to name a few. Some of us feed off of them and to ose them would be a shame. So I urge folk not to jump just because it has got a liitle ugly for a night or two.
There are a lot of people trying to revive the pulp and horror novel...and spending a lot of money doing it...so let's advise not chastise.
This is probably the best horror forum out there...for me...and for me, that's all that matters.
Now...can I interest you all with our furture releases....?
Neil
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Post by corpsecandle on Nov 16, 2008 8:22:59 GMT
Have I really put enough into this site to comment possibly not....but I would like to say something even if it is ignored. The upside to this board is it's ability to evidence a lively and thriving horror small press in the U.K. A while back I was worried about my writing habits and needed to get back in the saddle before things went south. I came here as the first port of call as I knew it to be a relaible source of small press links,so I asked the board and in a warm manner they pointed me in the right direction. I ended up thanks to Rog submitting a story to the next Filthy Creations...a story may I add that would never been written without such an outlet so once again thank you Rog and thank The Vault and all it's members. I also learned that my own dirty sin namely Guy N.Smith is bringing out a stack of new horror stuff so thanks to this place I now have a cheeky git style xmas list . The problems that I do have with the site is that for me it's a little too fractious,not in terms of members you understand but the amount of topics and sub-topics there are. Sometimes I feel bloated just looking at the forum so I tend not to post to much. Unfourtunatly this means I haven't really got to know the members and feel slightly intimadated to post Just as a suggestion Rog if you do decide to do a Filthy Creations forum (I think it's a great idea) you could put a sub-forum for small press and maybe this will alleviate the problems Demonik has been experencing. This place could be for pulp book discusions yours to be a sort of sister site for F.C and other small press ventures.
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Post by Calenture on Nov 16, 2008 11:54:37 GMT
I want to get onto the "What I'm reading thread" so I won't spend too much time on this one; but briefly, we seem to be agreeing that we need to look at some new reading or there won't be any more old books and people will eventually exhaust the older stuff as posting subjects - which has happened. As for a site for FC - and Paperback Fanatic, etc? - like I said, it can be done. Steve and I have talked on the phone. Steve had a MySpace blog in mind with posts on writers and art. I'd prefer a forum because people could create their own profiles and push their own publications (so it would end up exactly like other writing sites). OK, not sure, thinking about that... Steve's idea about the selective 30 Most Recent posts (above) seems good, too. OK, now I'm bored and going to another thread... P.S. Maybe Steve could start a MySpace page and I could put up a forum, each to be run by various members so we wouldn't have to waste too much time on them?
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stephenbacon
Crab On The Rampage
www.stephenbacon.co.uk
Posts: 78
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Post by stephenbacon on Nov 16, 2008 17:54:42 GMT
Neil, nice post.
Well thought-out, calm, and sensible.
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Post by killercrab on Nov 16, 2008 18:21:06 GMT
Many of those who started and made it special post infrequently, if at all >>
After finding a torch I went back to the start of this topic and like a few others realise this is what this is all about. I feel guilty ... pretty damn guilty actually. In the interest of research I opened the tomb of the first vault to look at stats to contrast.... hand shaking.
VAULT 1 ( at closure) topics sampling
Nel - 94 Nel Rivals - 112 Pan - 56 Creative Writing - 114
VAULT 2 same topics
Nel - 78 Nel Rivals - 81 Pan - 54 Creative Writing - 74
The thing that strikes is that our new vault is much more balanced in favour of all topics which strikes me why for instance the 30 latest can get top heavy with me posts. Let's also factor in that the topics covering vintage pulp are in many instances mere duplications from the first venue.
This I think is the crucial difference. It's not that the fans of creative writing or new horror have so much taken over - it's that - GASP - HORROR - the fans of vintage pulp aren't frankly pulling their weight( someone said that earlier right ? and they're right). Sobering isn't it? I'm the first to admit I've been reading less and posting even less in fact only Dem himself has been keeping the end up vintage review wise. I can see why he's so dispirited - I *really* can.You're a diamond geezer and no mistaking.
The question then rears up - why did the vintage postings slow down. I think in absolute honesty it was allowing the pool to widen that caused this through a benevolent approach.I think the group has been abused in both what's been posted and what's not - we all are to blame. Suddenly the competition made the old books stuff seem less *special*. I know I'll admit losing heart pretty quickly when I couldn't understand one post out of 30 in latest. What's a Cone anyway? No disrespect intended .. but ?
I honestly don't know whether I want to or can get enthusiastic about the current vault because I can't hide the fact I have very little interest in fanzines and new mammoth books. I like to support my friends but that's the length of it. I fear any effort will eventually get swamped by the internet look at me culture the web wide. I'd rather look at those old guys who deserve their moment in the limelight after so many years...
Let me know when that shits happenin' again fellas.
KC
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Post by weirdmonger on Nov 16, 2008 18:26:50 GMT
Very good post, I feel, killercrab. As to skinheads, westerns, cones (the latter I think all being on the private workshop along with creative writing exercises) all unfortunately appear in the last 30 posts when you are logged in. Many of those who started and made it special post infrequently, if at all >> After finding a torch I went back to the start of this topic and like a few others realise this is what this is all about. I feel guilty ... pretty damn guilty actually. In the interest of research I opened the tomb of the first vault to look at stats to contrast.... hand shaking. VAULT 1 ( at closure) topics sampling Nel - 94 Nel Rivals - 112 Pan - 56 Creative Writing - 114 VAULT 2 same topics Nel - 78 Nel Rivals - 81 Pan - 54 Creative Writing - 74 The thing that strikes is that our new vault is much more balanced in favour of all topics which strikes me why for instance the 30 latest can get top heavy with me posts. Let's also factor in that the topics covering vintage pulp are in many instances mere duplications from the first venue. This I think is the crucial difference. It's not that the fans of creative writing or new horror have so much taken over - it's that - GASP - HORROR - the fans of vintage pulp aren't frankly pulling their weight( someone said that earlier right ? and they're right). Sobering isn't it? I'm the first to admit I've been reading less and posting even less in fact only Dem himself has been keeping the end up vintage review wise. I can see why he's so dispirited - I *really* can.You're a diamond geezer and no mistaking. The question then rears up - why did the vintage postings slow down. I think in absolute honesty it was allowing the pool to widen that caused this through a benevolent approach.I think the group has been abused in both what's been posted and what's not - we all are to blame. Suddenly the competition made the old books stuff seem less *special*. I know I'll admit losing heart pretty quickly when I couldn't understand one post out of 30 in latest. What's a Cone anyway? No disrespect intended .. but ? I honestly don't know whether I want to or can get enthusiastic about the current vault because I can't hide the fact I have very little interest in fanzines and new mammoth books. I like to support my friends but that's the length of it. I fear any effort will eventually get swamped by the internet look at me culture the web wide. I'd rather look at those old guys who deserve their moment in the limelight after so many years... Let me know when that shits happenin' again fellas. KC
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Post by killercrab on Nov 16, 2008 18:41:09 GMT
Very good post, I feel, killercrab.
As to skinheads, westerns, cones >>
I think the books and social culture of the times are intertwined. Publishing was so much more important to us kids back then and it's about celebrating the diversity of badness we could get ahold of. Books aren't the same now - I'm sorry but the market now is different. I don't think horror could be written in the same hacky way either. I'm sorry but that's fact. Perhaps as pastiche - but them days is gone folks. However celebrating them isn't and this really was the in place for that - the cavern Club of Crassness - where else could you talk about James Darke and his The Witches for days at a time with repulsion even from those who could *take it*?. If I can't have that mad , funny , shocking , daring venue back here - I'd rather start again having learned lessons.
I think that spells out my position and no amount of intellectual argument or the well is dry claptrap will change this.
KC
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Nov 16, 2008 19:04:25 GMT
I must admit I never understood the cone thing but as somebody important once said I defend your right to say whatever it was you said. I also confess I didn't read anything about it and probably that's why I don't know what it was about. Probably something good but I'll never know.
Instead I did what I always do which is pick up on things that interested me. Mostly what normal people would regard as crap things but I love them - that is the golden age of On the Buses, confessions of a window cleaner and old pulp horror. (I like seeing the covers of the westerns and skinhead books too because they evoke an era and I'll try to get away with a bit of sf and fantasy when Dem has his back turned.)
I'd like also to say a word about Allyson Bird. It looks to me that Allyson has possibly written a great horror book. If I had any money I'd probably buy it even though modern horror doesn't much interest me. That flashy advert thing annoys me a bit but I suspect its just envy on my part. I was told by an editor that only those who aggressively promote their work have the remote chance of succeeding in writing. I also learned that the hard way in the music business and when I get a chance I do brazenly promote my music.
What Allyson has done is merely promote her work as best she can. She is enthusiastic when she gets a good review and wants to share it with us. I think there comes a point where one get lots of these; Allyson has possibly just about reached that point and then one wouldn't feel obliged to let us know. I got the strong impression that rather than saying 'look at me' she was simply glad to share her success with what she regarded as like minded souls. I've no doubt she deserves it and will go on to greater things. Good luck to her.
I think Dem has made the fair point of redirecting the Vault back to its roots. The success of this board is part of the problem - Despite those who would wish to say its descended to the pit like every other board I think it remains a singular place unlike anything else I have come across on the web.
Looking at my own dismal writing career I see I am being published in Horror after a gap of twenty years. I would never have sent a story away if it hadn't been for the Vault. I actually feel a strong desire to share a pint with numerous people on this board and will do so I hope at some distant convention - which I would never have known about if it hadn't been for the Vault. In short, like Bushwick I am somewhat astounded and amazed by this place and hope it continues.
Long post - but I believe that all that's needed to rescue the vault is a bit of cataloging, editing and sticking things in the right place - change of emphasis here, new website here or there to deal with peripheral quasi vault stuff and then a couple of pints of Guinness...
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Post by killercrab on Nov 16, 2008 19:32:30 GMT
Long post - but I believe that all that's needed to rescue the vault is a bit of cataloging, editing and sticking things in the right place - change of emphasis here, new website here or there to deal with peripheral quasi vault stuff and then a couple of pints of Guinness... >>
Slash and burn is the only option . I think just strimming the lawn won't do a damned thing. It will go south again. I'm sorry but I think a demarcation line needs drawing and 1980 seems as good as any. The only stuff after , that fits that mold is the Hamlyn's that got away. I'd like this place to be more select so it's obvious to anyone passing through what it's about but won't be confusing anymore. At the moment looking at the board says mixed vegetables but the label should of read beans... or 'oops.
KC
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Post by carolinec on Nov 16, 2008 20:13:11 GMT
I'd like this place to be more select so it's obvious to anyone passing through what it's about but won't be confusing anymore. Yes, absolutely. That's what I've been saying to Steve by PM today. Not being around at the start, I'd assumed "British horror anthology hell" meant it was about short horror stories, mostly UK, both old and new (since there are threads indicating that newer works are welcomed), but now I find that the original idea was vintage/pulpy horror, plus westerns, skinheads, punk, etc - not my scene at all (apart from the vintage horror). But I'm not a mind-reader - I didn't know that! And I'm quite gob-smacked to find that it's taken a whole year before anyone mentioned it! I'm therefore sitting back for a while to see where the board goes. If it's no longer of interest to me then, obviously, I'll leave. But I really do recommend that somebody changes what it says on the board pretty quickly, so that no-one else joins thinking it's about short UK horror stories!
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Nov 16, 2008 20:25:45 GMT
1980
everything after The Sixth Armada Monster Book. Pan Horror no 20, Fontano Ghost book no 16 etcetera, would disappear then....
Personally I didn't like anything much after 1981 never mind pulp fiction but I think demarcation by date might lead to some confusion. Don't know though. You could be right - I am now confused
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Post by Calenture on Nov 16, 2008 20:44:21 GMT
I did think of sending this link via email as it might be seen as promoting another site. But as the other site concerned was created purely due to comments read here recently, and is an attempt to alleviate them, I think you'll understand. If those wanting to promote their work want to push it at The Workshop of Filthy Creation, then all you have to do is register and post. It's a ProBoards message board, just like this one. And so far it's no more than bare bones; I've put it together this evening. Don't expect suitable avatars yet. I've linked mine from this site. I'll have to figure things out as I go. I intend to stay a member of this site for the forseeable future. Whether you have a small press book, magazine or comic, or want comment on your work, you can plug it there. It is not, repeat not, intended as an alternative to the Vault. I wouldn't be that daft.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Nov 16, 2008 21:27:08 GMT
I think that's the first time I've been first...
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