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Post by sean on May 8, 2008 16:37:49 GMT
To be honest Sean I think that's another reason I love them. There's nothing quite as fine as rattling a few cages now and then. Hell, yes. Something I also find that much of the best SF manages to do, coincidentally (or not!)
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Post by eddempster on May 8, 2008 16:40:05 GMT
I'm with you on the sex scene thing - if I wanted to read graphic depictions of sexual acts I'd have bought a Mills & Boon, wouldn't I? I don't mind a scene where two people begin to have sex and it's described as if seen from a distance, but as soon as it goes to macro I don't want to know the soggy details.
I'm no prude either, but it just doesn't interest me - that's not what I want out of a horror book.
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Post by andydecker on May 8, 2008 17:32:48 GMT
Frankly I like sex in novels. Of course it depends on the tone of the book. Some writer´s can´t just cut it.
And if you do it, do it right. In a Hutson novel or an Edward Lee it reads more natural than, say, in a Shirley Jackson novel.
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jond
New Face In Hell
Posts: 4
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Post by jond on May 8, 2008 18:13:36 GMT
I notice that I remember some stories involving kids quite clearly from my early years of reading Pan. One the child who is locked up and tries to escape over the wall. She is about to be made to look wisened and old by her grandmother. The other conversely 'The Little Girl Eater' where the girl warned about strangers drops the heavy weight on the poor trapped fellows head. Oh god! 'The Little Girl Eater'! That story haunted me for years! It's the dreadful inexorability of it - you know what's going to happen and simply have to 'watch' as it plays out like a greek tragedy. That, allied with the dreadful innocence in the motivations of the children. Absolutely horrible in a way that a simple gore or sadism tale can never be. That single story could just as easily have put me off horror for good as make me love the genre all the more, it had such an effect on me. Along with several other key stories from that era of the Pans, it did the latter... Thank goodness!
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Post by justin on May 8, 2008 18:14:05 GMT
I want to join the Decker in a celebration of all things gratuitous in pulp including sex. I'm always surprised by how prudish horror fans can be about the sexual content of their books- stop being such a bunch of old farts. Surely horror is all about pushing the boundaries and having some fun. I once flabbergasted Michel Parry by insisting The Slime Beast was superior to The Color From Space, a judgement I still stand by.
I stopped reading horror in the 1980s because in addition to the depressing, seedy tone and obligatory rape scene, they were just plain unimaginative crap. Then in the wave of Barker they were just plain over-long and pretentious crap. I started reading police procedurals and hardboiled stuff such as Elroy and Vachss and Joe Lansdale at they gave it tou at gut level but with infinitely more skill and impact than the horror hacks.
I've been a bit naughty and intentionally provocative with this post but thought it needed jazzing up even more!
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Post by David A. Riley on May 8, 2008 18:30:31 GMT
I know you're only being provocative but, believe me, I'm not being prudish. I was responsible for a novelette some years ago which was pretty explicit in its deviant sexual content. But that was because that was the point of the story. It just annoys me when some writers write tediously grubby sexual descriptions that add nothing to the story - and don't do anything about pushing back any kind of boundaries. The same things annoys me in films or on TV where, for no other reason but a bit of gratuitous voyeurism, we have a sex scene, sometimes completely out of context with the rest of the story.
Best wishes David
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Post by carolinec on May 8, 2008 19:10:18 GMT
It just annoys me when some writers write tediously grubby sexual descriptions that add nothing to the story - and don't do anything about pushing back any kind of boundaries. The same things annoys me in films or on TV where, for no other reason but a bit of gratuitous voyeurism, we have a sex scene, sometimes completely out of context with the rest of the story. I couldn't put it any better than this - my feelings exactly. Anyway, hasn't young Justin just come back from honeymoon? In which case, he's bound to want to be provocative on this subject! Yours sincerely, Old f*rt
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Post by eddempster on May 8, 2008 22:29:09 GMT
Heh, if I'm a prudish old f*rt, I'm guessing you're still fighting your way through puberty, getting your jollies by reading nudy books and whacking off into a sock, Justin Sorry - I was being deliberately provocative there, too But seriously, I read horror because I like horror. I find the sex scenes boring and I skim them whenever I see one. It doesn't have anything to do with being prudish (honest - no, really). The only woody I want to see is the sharpened one that's about to get driven through Count Draclear's [sic] black heart ;D
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Post by Craig Herbertson on May 9, 2008 10:09:42 GMT
I remember going in to Pandemonium bookshop in Manchester on the search for horror, sf, fantasy books. Somehow I always ended up in that section with the erotic novels thumbing through 'The Story of O' or the like. I've no idea what this says about me but probably nothing good.
Some great writers have churned out erotic masterpieces (I keep meaning to buy De Sade, purely for research of course) and while I wouldn't actively buy an erotic novel I would endorse the product and it would be the first thing I picked up from a coffee table.
Most sex scenes in horror that I've come across (sorry about that) seem a bit wooden and misplaced. I wonder if it has something to do with Horror being a subliminal replacement for sex.
Having said that Rog Pile's Tendrils is an example of a story where the sex is both realistic, enhances the story, is sensitively treated and furthers the plot.
Having come out with all this, there is a part of my pulp soul that likes gratuitous sex as much as gratuitous violence.
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Post by marksamuels on May 9, 2008 10:36:52 GMT
I think sex in horror works where horror in sex is the central concern of the story. For example, I believe that Lovecraft's "The Thing on the Doorstep" plays on this theme, and so too does Machen's "The Great God Pan". It has to be integral to the story rather than used willy-nilly simply as titillation (oooer missus!) Mark S.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on May 9, 2008 10:47:42 GMT
Yes good picks Mark. That other one The Turning of The Screw By Henry James is I suppose the classic
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Post by Craig Herbertson on May 9, 2008 11:00:01 GMT
Oh god! 'The Little Girl Eater'! That story haunted me for years! It's the dreadful inexorability of it - you know what's going to happen and simply have to 'watch' as it plays out like a greek tragedy. That, allied with the dreadful innocence in the motivations of the children. Absolutely horrible in a way that a simple gore or sadism tale can never be. yes, that form of horror tends to give me the shudders. I must have read the story a hundred times, knowing what was about to happen and each time wishing the guy could escape. Septimus Dale was the author and at the moment Johnnie has a thread on him here titled 'Pan Research'
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Post by allthingshorror on May 9, 2008 12:58:26 GMT
Sex and horror. Hmmmm. Well after reading all of the Marquis De Sade's work and in particular 120 Days of Sodom - reading lightweights like Herbert and Hutson is a walk in the park. PLease, for those with a weak stomach - don't dip. www.globusz.com/ebooks/120days/00000010.htm
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Post by redbrain on May 9, 2008 14:46:19 GMT
It just annoys me when some writers write tediously grubby sexual descriptions that add nothing to the story - and don't do anything about pushing back any kind of boundaries. The same things annoys me in films or on TV where, for no other reason but a bit of gratuitous voyeurism, we have a sex scene, sometimes completely out of context with the rest of the story. I couldn't put it any better than this - my feelings exactly. Anyway, hasn't young Justin just come back from honeymoon? In which case, he's bound to want to be provocative on this subject! Yours sincerely, Old f*rt Unless he's sated with it!
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Post by redbrain on May 9, 2008 14:51:59 GMT
I think sex in horror works where horror in sex is the central concern of the story. For example, I believe that Lovecraft's "The Thing on the Doorstep" plays on this theme, and so too does Machen's "The Great God Pan". It has to be integral to the story rather than used willy-nilly simply as titillation (oooer missus!) Mark S. I once knew someone who would have used the word "dubious" for just about any use of sex in fiction. ;D
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