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Post by allthingshorror on May 6, 2008 13:13:55 GMT
Now, now I'm not a Liverpool fan, I support The Villa for my sins - but I do appreciate that some poor buggers out there have to support Liverpool and that there's nothing wrong with that However sad they may be......
*runs away and hides under his duvet*
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Post by franklinmarsh on May 6, 2008 13:15:27 GMT
Re: animal cruelty, I was interested to see recently someone react negatively to a scene in a James Herbert book where a dog gets killed with a power saw. That was me Rog. I was caught by surprise, even though I'd read it before. Now that the family has two dogs I find that sort of thing unsettling. Of course, humans (though preferably not children in the power of adults) - they deserve it.
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Post by Johnlprobert on May 6, 2008 13:33:32 GMT
I've always liked Birkin's stories - his attitude has always come across to me as 'You want a horror story? Here's a horror story' It's what I call 'proper horror' - well written, disquieting and often leaving you with a sense of 'My God I can't believe people could do that to one another', rather than pages of description of zombies eating people, or pages of literary stuff that doesn't really add up to much.
I think the reason I like Birkin and not the Temperley may simply be a matter of style. But I think Birkin's bleak world view perhaps has more integrity because of the consistency of his stories, whereas the Temperley feels more 'for the money'.
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Post by dem bones on May 6, 2008 13:41:46 GMT
Animal cruelty: Graham Masterton's notorious Eric The Pie - I'm sure he wrote it for a bet - may not be as gross as it gets, but that's not through any lack of trying. I've not had the dubious pleasure of serial offender Alan Temperley's Love On The Farm but I've heard dreadful things about it. Child abuse. Birkin (again) can usually be relied upon for an infanticide or several, but surely one of the sickest stories ever to make it into a horror collection is Chris Miller's 'jokey' look at kiddie fiddling, The Magic Show in Michel Parry's More Devil's Kisses. I've never had a problem with Richard Laymon's preferred subject matter - young girls with big tits in peril - but he's annoyed me on a number of occasions when his novels scream 'Laymon-on-auto pilot'. All Hallows Eve and The Beast House read like little or no effort went into them at all which works for Richard Allen (sometimes) but never Laymon. Aston Villa? Bet you loved it when the bats invaded the Holte End in Guy N. Smith's .... (what else?) The Bats! I've always liked Birkin's stories - his attitude has always come across to me as 'You want a horror story? Here's a horror story' It's what I call 'proper horror' - well written, disquieting and often leaving you with a sense of 'My God I can't believe people could do that to one another', rather than pages of description of zombies eating people, or pages of literary stuff that doesn't really add up to much. I think the reason I like Birkin and not the Temperley may simply be a matter of style. But I think Birkin's bleak world view perhaps has more integrity because of the consistency of his stories, whereas the Temperley feels more 'for the money'. Top idea! Anyone who's got a copy of Fontana Horror 8, read Havelock's Farm and report back!
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Post by carolinec on May 6, 2008 14:09:43 GMT
Animal cruelty: ... I've not had the dubious pleasure of serial offender Alan Temperley's Love On The Farm but I've heard dreadful things about it. You pointed me in the direction of that one, I believe, Dem! I started it but couldn't finish it. I may give it another go some time - preferably not after eating. It may turn me into a vegetarian!
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Post by redbrain on May 6, 2008 15:44:18 GMT
sorry - but why is it when I went to write t w a t - it coms out as thingy? I don't know. It's a Pro Boards thing. I used to contribute to another Pro Boards forum where I tried to mention Never Mind the Buzzcocks - and it came out as Never Mind the Buzzthingies. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
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Post by andydecker on May 6, 2008 15:53:09 GMT
Hutson never could put me off horror, I still read him even if his output has become so-so. He has mellowed, but his RENEGADES is still a good one. At least most of his plots are solid and he is equal opportunity mean, what you don´t can always say of Laymon.
I never would have thought that something could put me off horror, but I discovered that movies like HOSTEL seriously put a dent in my enjoyment. I don´t watch torture videos on the net, or on the handy or whereever our youth laps drek like this up, why should I watch a torture movie devoid of story? I even enjoyed the SAW movies because they had a certain mean streak, but HOSTEL I don´t get.
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Post by allthingshorror on May 6, 2008 16:13:40 GMT
I will admit Dem, I've never read The Bats. May have to ch..ch.check it out.
Concerning Hostel, ach, watched the first one - thought that they could have done WAY more with it (though a NICE touch by putting Takashi Miike in there.)
No plans to watch the second one.
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Post by nightreader on May 6, 2008 17:52:21 GMT
Can a horror story go too far?
I think it came close with Miller's 'The Magic Show' story in 'More Devil's Kisses' - that made me feel uncomfortable for a good while afterward - I was half expecting to get arrested just for having it in the house! But then is that horror? Or is it closer to porn?
I'm a bit of a slow starter with the Birkin stories, and I certainly don't think they go too far (wherever that is) - I was expecting something horrible in 'A Lovely Bunch of Coconuts' and I'm glad he was brave enough not to disappoint, i guess it would have been easy to 'cop out'. Although some of the stories of his I've read are quite brutal, they also strike me as quite sad at times too.
Which story or stories nearly made you give up on the genre altogether?
There was a time, probably sometime in the 80's, when I nearly went off horror. About the time Anne Rice took over the bookshelves of nearly every bookshop on the planet. I could probably blame "Interview With A Vampire". When horror novels got bloated and the writers wanted literary credibility I got bored. I turned to crime fiction where there were (and still are) some very disturbing serial killer novels. I still get that old frustration in the bookshop when everything looks the same, I really loathe those endless series of trendy vampire novels with a fashionable vamp on the cover.
I have to say that the few Laymon books I've read have been entertaining - no one is pretending it's Art, and that's why I like them when I'm in the right mood. But then I always liked the pulps and a high gory death count usually works for me.
And 'Hostel' was ok I thought, but the sequel was dire and pointless (I should have known better, 'Saw' was the same).
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Post by eddempster on May 6, 2008 22:00:35 GMT
I've had a bit of a bumpy ride with a couple of novels over the past year or two. I make a point of taking a book to work with me each day, and I read for about half an hour at lunchtime. It has become something I look forward to in my day. I've read a bunch of the classics - A Farewell To Arms, To Kill A Mockingbird, Catcher In The Rye, then changed tack a bit and read Frankenstein, Dracula, came into the present with Haunted, Barcelona Plates, Cell, The Liar, The Taken, The Time Traveler's Wife, The Keep, all of which I've enjoyed to varying degrees.
The only books I've read lately that pissed me off were - Catcher In The Rye (just plain bloody boring), The Secret of Crickley Hall (James Herbert - twaddle, child abuse, too long, info dumpy, dull, dull, dull) and the one I'm reading at the moment - The Rising by Brian Keene. I don't think I'm going to finish it.
Apart from the weird syntax woven through the book, such as (at the beginning of chapter 6)...
...(try to picture that as simultaneous action and it's comical), and the occasional spelling and punctuation mistakes, it's just plain boring to read about one zombie battling scene after another. The concept is good, but I don't like the writing style and it's all a bit samey and slightly crass for me.
It has put me off reading another horror novel next. I think I'll read a couple of short story collections instead.
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Post by dem bones on May 7, 2008 7:13:01 GMT
Nightreader, I so feel your pain. It's the same here. No horror story has ever made me think of giving up on the genre because of it's atrocious subject matter (it's a horror story, after all), but I walked somewhere around the early 'nineties because I couldn't cope with what I perceived to be an influx of pretentious gits with one eye on a nice literary trophy and the other terminally peering up their own self-important backsides. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if these World Fantasy Awards and the like actually do more harm than good, although I reserve my right to do a complete about-turn on this when the world catches up with how great I am and recognises me as the best thing to happen to their sad little genre since Etiene Aubin's masterly The Terror Of The Seven Crypts.
I'm with you and Johnny Probert on Birkin - no big news there, I realise - but I think you're the first person to stress that several of his stories are incredibly sad - as in heartbreaking - when he's not doing the full-on Grand Guignol bit (the laugh out loud, "that's not funny - that's sick!" Marjorie's On Starlight, The Finger Of Fear, etc). It's the non-escapist (and then some) stuff which tends to put readers off the most, and I can't say as I blame them. Here's Hugh Lamb's introduction to Waiting For Trains from Star Book Of Horror 1 (1975):
This is without doubt the most appalling tale in this book. Do not expect any fictional monsters, ghosts, any of the usual contents of horror stories. Instead there is a tale set very firmly in the real world.
Charles Birkin's wartime service took him to occupied Germany, where he witnessed the events on which this tale is founded. Though he wrote it quite some time ago, only this year there was graphic confirmation in a Sunday newspaper of the events described.
The usual Charles Birkin story is based on man's inhumanity to man, and he is without doubt the greatest exponent of this kind of tale. Waiting For Trains goes one step further and brings us yet another timely reminder that the most horrifying thing in the world is man himself. I make no apologies for including this very serious tale in what is basically a light anthology. But read it, feel the atmosphere of deceit and tragedy and ask yourself if you have ever read a more horrifying story.
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Post by David A. Riley on May 7, 2008 7:41:59 GMT
In the light of so many supporters of Charles Birkin's tales I will probably have to take a second look at them. It is close on four decades since I last read any and my tastes have matured a little since then(!) There's probably more to him than I gave credit for in my teens - perhaps not the best age to come across him.
I have just started to reread Poe for perhaps the same length of time and find I am appreciating his stories far more than I recollect doing the first time round.
Though I still find the concept of The Copper Bowl repulsive. I don't think my recollections of or reactions to that will have changed. Too deeply ingrained and traumatised at the time. That genuinely did put me off reading horror stories for several years. I think I must have been about thirteen when I read it - perhaps far too young, at least in those days when most Hammer Films were given "X" certificates.
David
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Post by allthingshorror on May 7, 2008 8:01:20 GMT
Poe....now there's a case of tastes changing.
I was a huge fan of Poe as a kid, one of the first books I remember getting at the library was a Poe collection and I was agog at the genius of the man.
I picked up a NAL/Signet copy of The Fall of The House of Usher and other tales at a car boot a few months back and started reading them in the car on the way home and god forbid - the stories absolutely bored me. Even firm favourites like the Cask of Amontillado and Diddling left me feeling a bit sad and confused.
I suppose it'll come round again when I'll enjoy his stuff, but I've even got a biography of the man I probably wont read any more!
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Post by allthingshorror on May 7, 2008 8:06:42 GMT
Oh before I forget - Greelys Cove by John Gideon. A case of a book going so far over the line, there just aint no way back. I've only seen a few copies of it since I last read it when I was 19 - and my stomach churns when I think about having read it. Nasty, nasty book.....
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Post by weirdmonger on May 7, 2008 8:39:44 GMT
Even firm favourites like the Cask of Amontillado and Diddling Diddling? EDIT: Just looked it up on a google. Not heard of it before. EDIT AGAIN: A lot of my own old stuff now puts me off horror.
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