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Jul 29, 2012 21:02:06 GMT
Post by ramseycampbell on Jul 29, 2012 21:02:06 GMT
I've recommended Steve Mosby's blog before (and certainly also his books) but I find this extraordinary enough to single out: www.theleftroom.co.uk/?p=1724
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Jul 30, 2012 5:34:33 GMT
Post by jamesdoig on Jul 30, 2012 5:34:33 GMT
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Jul 30, 2012 10:51:43 GMT
Post by Dr Strange on Jul 30, 2012 10:51:43 GMT
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Jul 31, 2012 9:00:38 GMT
Post by dem bones on Jul 31, 2012 9:00:38 GMT
Reminds me of similar abuse of Amazon Reviews, which lends itself to that kind of behaviour. You've got to wonder why a bestselling author would bother: my sentiments entirely. i can at least understand why someone would be tempted to do it if they're on the bottom rung, but what's the point when you've already cracked it? Anyway, by my reckoning there are quite a few of our regulars have appeared on panels at similar events, and my question is this: does a lot of touchline coaching go on? The chairman or whoever approaches guest A, who maybe has a reputation for being outspoken, and asks them to play devil's advocate for the evening?
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Jul 31, 2012 14:18:00 GMT
Post by ramseycampbell on Jul 31, 2012 14:18:00 GMT
Reminds me of similar abuse of Amazon Reviews, which lends itself to that kind of behaviour. You've got to wonder why a bestselling author would bother: my sentiments entirely. i can at least understand why someone would be tempted to do it if they're on the bottom rung, but what's the point when you've already cracked it? Anyway, by my reckoning there are quite a few of our regulars have appeared on panels at similar events, and my question is this: does a lot of touchline coaching go on? The chairman or whoever approaches guest A, who maybe has a reputation for being outspoken, and asks them to play devil's advocate for the evening? I've been on so many convention panels I've lost count. It has never happened to me, and I've never heard of it from anyone else.
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Jul 31, 2012 14:26:17 GMT
Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jul 31, 2012 14:26:17 GMT
It has never happened to me Possibly you do not have a reputation for being outspoken.
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Jul 31, 2012 16:02:05 GMT
Post by dem bones on Jul 31, 2012 16:02:05 GMT
I've been on so many convention panels I've lost count. It has never happened to me, and I've never heard of it from anyone else. Thanks Ramsey, and on second thoughts, we'll forget about any perceived reputation and abbreviate that to: "Does anyone have experience of a chairman asking them to play devil's advocate for the evening? I guess it depends on just how friendly you are with the chair/ whoever, but surely some people would be very affronted? "You've invited me along just to play the f**k**g clown?"
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Sept 5, 2012 6:11:39 GMT
Post by dem bones on Sept 5, 2012 6:11:39 GMT
Columnist Sam Leith name-checked further practitioners of the Black Arts in Monday's Evening Boris Johnson for Mayor. "First Orlando Figes and Johann Harl were caught using on-line "sockpuppet" identities to attack rivals. Then crime writer Stephen Leather admitted using sock puppets to "build buzz" - and, as he was more reluctant to admit. to harass his critics. Last week thriller-writer Jeremy Duns, who brings the zeal of a Savonarola to exposing this sort of stuff, accused the best-selling R. J. Ellory of being behind Amazon aliases that - in addition to blgging up his work ("a modern masterpiece ... magnificent') - gave one-star reviews to rivals including Mark Billingham ("Just didn't work on any level"). Giving Ellory the benefit of the doubt was always going to be tricky. One alias signed off “‘Roger" and said: "Email me through my websire rjellory.com." Ellory yesterday issued a statement through his agent, blandly regretting his “lapse oi‘judgement". He won't be the last." - The internet is a modern-day Grub Street, Evening Standard, London, 3rd September, 2012) No news to Mr. Campbell, but some of you may not be aware that a number of authors have come together to speak out against this unwelcome trend in 'A Message From Some Writers at No sock puppets here please. I doubt their commendable stand will make the slightest difference, but am glad they've made it, and am already liking the sound of ex-C..I.A. man turned thriller author Jeremy Duns. Perhaps, if he fancies taking on the excessive workload from Hell, Mr. Duns might like to extend the investigation to Wikipedia and those authors who pen their own fulsome entries. incidentally, why is this thread called 'A'?
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Sept 5, 2012 10:12:19 GMT
Post by Dr Strange on Sept 5, 2012 10:12:19 GMT
There's more - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19465081Just to play devil's advocate again - (1) What about author "mates" (sometimes, no doubt entirely coincidentally, sharing a publisher) who always give each other glowing reviews that can be quoted on book covers? (2) I guess what I'm saying is the concept of "honest advertising" is a complete non-starter (imagine if books carried quotes from bad reviews too, not just the good ones). The point of advertising is to shift product - and to a large extent what is passed off as "reviewing" is really just a form of advertising. (3) Why does anyone take Am*z*n reviews seriously anyway? Any idiot can log on and say anything they like - there are people there giving review ratings based entirely on how quickly a book was delivered fur fek's sake...
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Sept 5, 2012 11:31:42 GMT
Post by Craig Herbertson on Sept 5, 2012 11:31:42 GMT
There's more - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19465081Just to play devil's advocate again - (1) What about author "mates" (sometimes, no doubt entirely coincidentally, sharing a publisher) who always give each other glowing reviews that can be quoted on book covers? (2) I guess what I'm saying is the concept of "honest advertising" is a complete non-starter (imagine if books carried quotes from bad reviews too, not just the good ones). The point of advertising is to shift product - and to a large extent what is passed off as "reviewing" is really just a form of advertising. (3) Why does anyone take Am*z*n reviews seriously anyway? Any idiot can log on and say anything they like - there are people there giving review ratings based entirely on how quickly a book was delivered fur fek's sake... Spot on. The problem is that the big institutions critics and publishers who used to have some credibility have been replaced by the endless possibilities of the internet. the only reviews worth looking at I've found are by individuals who you respect. That's a plus really. I've found a fair few books by looking at people who like similar stuff and have recommended something. Dare I say that the Vault is a prime example of well informed critics who love their stuff and its the kind of place that's replaced those big institutions.
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Sept 5, 2012 12:30:09 GMT
Post by Dr Strange on Sept 5, 2012 12:30:09 GMT
And don't get me started on wikipedia...
They maintain a list of "controversial articles" (i.e. items that are continually being re-edited in a circular manner) that's a real eye-opener. I think they've tried to tighten things up recently but, as an example, a few years back they had a page for "notable Irish-Americans" that was near the top of that list - as the name "Eddie Murphy" was repeatedly added and removed. Seriously, if you ever wanted an argument against democracy, wikipedia is it.
I think this thread is called "A" because, like opinions, everyone has got one...
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Sept 5, 2012 19:18:44 GMT
Post by dem bones on Sept 5, 2012 19:18:44 GMT
I think this thread is called "A" because, like opinions, everyone has got one... Exactly and reviews, even the 'honest' ones, are no more than that however you want to dress them up. But i love that there are so many people prepared to write with enthusiasm about books they had no hand in. i'm with Craig, in that i've made several purchases on the strength of what people have written on here, not through any delusion that this is somehow "better" than Amazon (it sure isn't), just that after such a long time, you get to know which posters have similar tastes to your own and if they rate it, there's a decent chance you will too. Frequent any forum for long enough and it would be exactly the same. There's more - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19465081Just to play devil's advocate again - (1) What about author "mates" (sometimes, no doubt entirely coincidentally, sharing a publisher) who always give each other glowing reviews that can be quoted on book covers? Or join forums to big one another up, or petition for compliments they can stockpile on their blogs, or aggressively campaign for award nominations ... Sad thing is, we've had these - for want of a much better word - "debates" before. They got pretty emotional, self-serving types registered for the solitary purpose of inflaming the situation, attention seekers contributed their usual services. It wasn't any fun, nothing good came of it, and the fall out was so bitter there are those who evidently still loathe one another over their respective stance. This anti-sock puppet letter felt so right last night, now i'm wavering. The 'World News' item highlights one of the snags. If the alleged 'sockpuppet' in this instance is telling the truth then his accuser got trigger-happy, something that does neither party any favours. The potential for false accusation - either through genuine error or something altogether more malicious - is very real. Also, some on the blog have already raised concerns that this could degenerate into a witch hunt.
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Sept 6, 2012 11:28:43 GMT
Post by Dr Strange on Sept 6, 2012 11:28:43 GMT
Yeah, I was getting all nostalgic last night, thinking about how (when I was a kid) I "discovered" all my favourite authors either through hours of browsing in bookshops and libraries, or by recommendations from mates (which usually meant them also lending me the book) - it wasn't ever by reading "reviews" written by complete strangers.
One of the websites I looked at yesterday said crime author James Ellroy (who even I have heard of) provides quotes to go on the covers of other writers' books - yet he has repeatedly claimed in interviews that he never reads contemporary fiction! As far as I am concerned this is just like millionaire celebs doing TV ads for products that you know they've never used and never will - sure, at some level it's "dishonest", but I think you'd have to be very naive to not see it for what it is.
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Sept 6, 2012 12:59:04 GMT
Post by Craig Herbertson on Sept 6, 2012 12:59:04 GMT
Yeah, that's it. Scouring secondhand bookshops aged nine. Swapping books with a few mates (most people didn't read and where do you find horror, sf and fantasy fans at school). Then the gradual correspondence, occasional fanzine, stray comment heard on the telly.
When I started writing and sent my desperate efforts to Pan, the only person who read them was my mum. this sounds a touch Oedipal but basically it was because I didn't know anyone else interested.(She faked interest very well).
Most of my books were bought direct from a shop or through secondhand catalogues. Reviews and blurbs on the back tended to be by authors you respected or reviewers you had hear of.
Then the internet: everything on tap, anyone can say anything, anyone can believe anything. It's had one advantage though. Once you've been tricked into buying a pile of crap once, you can quickly dismiss any further efforts from that source; and to be honest, as soon as I see a certain format of sales pitch reminiscent of those sad bastards who try to change your mobile phone package, a certain part of my inner soul puts a shutter up and I go quietly blind.
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