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Post by šrincess šµuvstarr on Jan 15, 2022 15:17:49 GMT
One of the other stories, "The Adventure of the Black Baronet" was televised as a 1953 episode of Suspense, with Basil Rathbone as Holmes:  I think Rathbone is a decent Holmes, but Bruce's Watson is terrible. "Hurgh, hurgh, Holmes!" A bumbling simpleton who could only have had connections to have passed medical school. The later ones have ridiculous plots too, I've nothing against Holmes being used to help the war effort in propaganda films, and if it helped in any way then I'm glad they did, but they don't stand up well in their own right. There is a one where Holmes is hypnotised by Moriarty, and where Moriarty falls to his death from a drainpipe, and another where he recommends the best method to kill himself to Moriarty, bleeding to death, and where Moriarty falls to his death(again) through an open trapdoor. In fact he constantly falls into Moriarty's clutches, which isn't good going for a master of foiling criminals. And even if he is only pretending to fall into Moriarty's clutches, it is still a stupid thing to do as he is relying on Watson and Lestrade to rescue him, and they are as smart as members of The Three Stooges. |
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Post by šrincess šµuvstarr on Jan 15, 2022 15:47:47 GMT
Holmes is also often portrayed in films and TV as a supermind that has delved into every area of human knowledge, but he is no Leibniz. He is exceptional only in areas linked to criminology. He didn't even know the Earth revolved around the Sun. Which in my opinion makes him a much more interesting character.
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Post by helrunar on Jan 15, 2022 17:16:56 GMT
That's a fabulous find, Michael. I didn't know that Rathbone portrayed Holmes on film (or at least, film for TV) in the 1950s, after the wrap-up of the Universal films in the mid 1940s. I wonder if that show still exists.
I watched some of the Rathbone/Bruce films repeatedly thanks to television broadcasts back in the early to mid 70s, but somehow missed certain ones. I've only now been reading some of the original Conan Doyle stories--and learning just how much my beloved Sax Rohmer owed to the author and creator of the world's first consulting detective.
Somewhat off-topic, but I also recently read Conan Doyle's two Egyptian horror stories, "Lot 249" and "The Ring of Thoth"--had no idea how blatantly the original Universal film The Mummy and the subsequent 1940s Mummy cycle films were derived from those two tales.
H.
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Post by Michael Connolly on Jan 15, 2022 19:26:40 GMT
That's a fabulous find, Michael. I didn't know that Rathbone portrayed Holmes on film (or at least, film for TV) in the 1950s, after the wrap-up of the Universal films in the mid 1940s. I wonder if that show still exists. I watched some of the Rathbone/Bruce films repeatedly thanks to television broadcasts back in the early to mid 70s, but somehow missed certain ones. I've only now been reading some of the original Conan Doyle stories--and learning just how much my beloved Sax Rohmer owed to the author and creator of the world's first consulting detective. Somewhat off-topic, but I also recently read Conan Doyle's two Egyptian horror stories, "Lot 249" and "The Ring of Thoth"--had no idea how blatantly the original Universal film The Mummy and the subsequent 1940s Mummy cycle films were derived from those two tales. H. Actually the only find for me is the existence of the Robert Fawcett illustrations. I've known about Basil Rathbone doing Holmes for tv for years. |
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david
Crab On The Rampage
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Post by david on Jan 16, 2022 10:31:03 GMT
Carr was an exceptional plotter with an ingenious knack for the locked room - even if he did sometimes lift a few things, as mentioned - and was also a very good writer of characters. I have seen him denigrated by fools like Julian Symons (whose own work never really edged above the 'humdrums' he despised so much but who are the meat and drink of most crime and thriller readers because of their consistency)as one-dimensional, but whatever. I prefer him as Carter Dickson simply because I prefer Merrivale to Fell (who is very like Father Brown in some ways, which I suppose explains the Chesterton lift). But he's always worth a read. He also penned a Sherlock Holmes volume of shorts based on notes and references to cases in Doyle's papers and Holmes stories. These were co-credited to Adrian Conan Doyle, but were all Carr's work. Brian Doyle (no relation)- a writer on kids literature and film publicist - met Adrian and classed him as a foppish playboy who, like his brother, lived off their father's work and money and actually had no interest in writing or books at all (the brother, to be fair, kept a very close eye on the movie versions and was partly responsible for the magic Rathbone formula). Briefly - odd coincidences: Brian Doyle worked also on the Billy Wilder 'Secret Life...' Holmes movie, and stood in as the corpse who also appears on the cover of the book; I knew Brian ten years before I realised I'd been at school with his son, and his daughter had dated my chum Nikki Sudden (who wanted to be Sexton Blake and Biggles when he wasn't being Johnny Thunders or Keef)... it can be a very small world. According to Carr's biographer, Douglas Greene, Carr was mainly responsible for the first six stories in Exploits. They clearly reflect his writing style and plotting. Then Carr's health started to suffer due largely to the pressure of working with the notoriously demanding and irascible Adrian Conan Doyle, and he withdrew from the project. As Greene notes, the final six stories, written by Adrian alone, are more in the style of Arthur Conan Doyle but extremely derivative of the plots of some of the original stories. Overall, I found Exploits to be among the more enjoyable Holmes pastiches, some of which are truly wretched. And for any fans of Carr, I would recommend Greene's biography very highly. |
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Post by PeterC on Jan 16, 2022 19:36:12 GMT
'The House in Goblin Wood'
Would it be unethical for some kind soul to give me the low-down on this story - spoilers welcome.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jan 16, 2022 19:49:54 GMT
'The House in Goblin Wood' Would it be unethical for some kind soul to give me the low-down on this story - spoilers welcome. Body parts transported in picnic baskets. There, I spoiled it for you. |
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Post by PeterC on Jan 16, 2022 20:00:05 GMT
Thank-you Jojo, but I was hoping for an outline of the plot that leads to said body parts. Any chance?
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jan 16, 2022 20:01:51 GMT
Thank-you Jojo, but I was hoping for an outline of the plot that leads to said body parts. Any chance? Do you have Google? There are several essays on the story that come up immediately. |
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jan 16, 2022 20:46:51 GMT
Thank-you Jojo, but I was hoping for an outline of the plot that leads to said body parts. Any chance? Do you have Google? There are several essays on the story that come up immediately. Alternatively, why not read it? It is a quick read. I just reread it myself. |
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david
Crab On The Rampage
Posts: 49
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Post by david on Jan 16, 2022 21:42:21 GMT
Do you have Google? There are several essays on the story that come up immediately. Alternatively, why not read it? It is a quick read. I just reread it myself. "The House in Goblin Wood" is one of Carr's best ss, and it is definitely worth the time to read it. FWIW, my favorite Carr ss is "The Wrong Problem," not for the brilliance of its plot, but for its depth of feeling, unusual in a Carr story. Are the Carr fans on this site familar with Paul Halter's work? |
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david
Crab On The Rampage
Posts: 49
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Post by david on Jan 16, 2022 22:19:31 GMT
Holmes is also often portrayed in films and TV as a supermind that has delved into every area of human knowledge, but he is no Leibniz. He is exceptional only in areas linked to criminology. He didn't even know the Earth revolved around the Sun. Which in my opinion makes him a much more interesting character. I need to come to Holmes' defense here. The stuff about Holmes not caring about anything that didn't apply directly to his profession and not wanting to crowd his mind-attic with extraneous information is pretty much confined to the first story, A Study in Scarlet." In several later adventures, Holmes displays a keen intellectual curiousity and broad knowledge base. Looking at things as a detached observer, I think Doyle's conception of the character evolved (for the better) over the course of his writing. Playing the "Holmes-was-a-real-person game," I would say that during their early days together, Holmes enjoyed putting the good doctor on by feigning ignorance of things that were not directly pertinent to his work. |
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Post by helrunar on Jan 16, 2022 22:38:30 GMT
I'm not as informed as most about Holmesiana, but I agree with your analysis here.
And I must look up that John Dickson Carr (or is it Carter Dickson, or another alias) story about the Goblin Wood, never having heard of it before (I lead a sheltered life).
cheers, Hel
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Post by Dr Strange on Jan 16, 2022 22:44:31 GMT
Holmes is also often portrayed in films and TV as a supermind that has delved into every area of human knowledge, but he is no Leibniz. He is exceptional only in areas linked to criminology. He didn't even know the Earth revolved around the Sun. Which in my opinion makes him a much more interesting character. I need to come to Holmes' defense here. The stuff about Holmes not caring about anything that didn't apply directly to his profession and not wanting to crowd his mind-attic with extraneous information is pretty much confined to the first story, A Study in Scarlet." In several later adventures, Holmes displays a keen intellectual curiousity and broad knowledge base. Looking at things as a detached observer, I think Doyle's conception of the character evolved (for the better) over the course of his writing. Playing the "Holmes-was-a-real-person game," I would say that during their early days together, Holmes enjoyed putting the good doctor on by feigning ignorance of things that were not directly pertinent to his work. Yes, I think I would have to agree with that. I mean, how could he "really" not know that the earth goes around the sun? An averagely intelligent schoolboy would have known that. |
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Post by šrincess šµuvstarr on Jan 16, 2022 23:13:40 GMT
Holmes is also often portrayed in films and TV as a supermind that has delved into every area of human knowledge, but he is no Leibniz. He is exceptional only in areas linked to criminology. He didn't even know the Earth revolved around the Sun. Which in my opinion makes him a much more interesting character. I need to come to Holmes' defense here. The stuff about Holmes not caring about anything that didn't apply directly to his profession and not wanting to crowd his mind-attic with extraneous information is pretty much confined to the first story, A Study in Scarlet." In several later adventures, Holmes displays a keen intellectual curiousity and broad knowledge base. Looking at things as a detached observer, I think Doyle's conception of the character evolved (for the better) over the course of his writing. Playing the "Holmes-was-a-real-person game," I would say that during their early days together, Holmes enjoyed putting the good doctor on by feigning ignorance of things that were not directly pertinent to his work. I said he was exceptional only in certain fields. I never said he was pig ignorant in everything else. In pastiches he is often portrayed as knowing everything. He obviously has a knowledge of literature, as I know that "The game is afoot" is a quote from Shakespeare's King Henry IV Part I, and Henry V. Also I know, as I saw it when I read it, that he quotes from a letter from Gustave Flaubert to Amantine Lucile Aurore Dupin at the end of one of his stories. Only he gets the quote wrong. But really Doyle just probably added things when the mood took him, with no real thought for how future readers would try to create a history out of it, as he seems to have preferred his historical novels, and held them in much higher regard. |
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