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Post by Craig Herbertson on Dec 11, 2010 10:16:19 GMT
I was on the BFS site last week and noticed a thread about the publications. I was astonished to see that some members would prefer a PDF or an ebook or other electronic gimmickry to an actual book. I'm not for a second knocking this preference. It is after all simply a preference but on the other hand I am really labouring to understand how anyone could prefer this.
One of the arguments is that the story alone counts. Another might have been saves that it saves space or energy and I can think of a few more quite valid reasons for not having an actual book.
Is this a complete change, a submission to the computer age? Is the book going to go? As a one time collector of books I simply can't get my head around 'not' wanting a book. I have some rare books, not many, and to me they are a delight. Then the garish covers of the old genre pulps are like an aphrodisiac to me. Each one is a time machine, the very smell of the paper, the quaintness of the illustrations, the very stance of the characters on the cover; each a social document in itself. New books too: often you know the people who've written them and can delight in the very novelty of holding something they've written.
There's also the best time of the evening; propped up in bed with the latest acquisition, turning the pages gently, putting the bookmark at the last page, Do people do that kind of thing with a lap top?
Are we going the way of the charity shop bargain book. Is it all over for the book lover? Are we passe now, the dinosaurs facing the ice age? Please say no.
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Thana Niveau
Devils Coach Horse
We who walk here walk alone.
Posts: 109
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Post by Thana Niveau on Dec 11, 2010 10:38:26 GMT
Is it all over for the book lover? Are we passe now, the dinosaurs facing the ice age? Please say no. No, no and again no! Please say it isn't so! I'm with you, Craig. Of course I see the practicality of ebooks and e-readers but I love being surrounded by the actual physical volumes. I love the stack of books beside the bed and I love flicking through various books to find a quote or a favourite story. Sure, scanning through PDFs on my computer would be easier but Just Not The Same. Never.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Dec 11, 2010 11:29:10 GMT
I have to admit I am at least as interested in books as physical objects as I am in their contents. But note that
1. Most books being produced now do not look very good, and might as well be replaced by digital editions---I am not planning to read them anyway!
2. Books produced earlier are still around, and as long as nobody is planning to destroy them it makes no difference to me if new texts only appear in digital format.
It is interesting to consider, though, that our current culture will leave absolutely no traces behind for future generations to study.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Dec 11, 2010 12:59:55 GMT
Yes Jojo. I think we may well be setting up aspects of our civilization that will resemble Egyptian magical hieroglyphics, Dutch symbols in paintings and Celtic standing stones. Objects like PC's and laptops could well be strange artifacts with no conceivable purpose. Archeologists of the future puzzling out the flat screens and the strange function key symbols, the internal circuitry, wondering what on earth it was all for?
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Post by lemming13 on Dec 11, 2010 13:04:03 GMT
I don't know about preferring ebooks! I have my Kindle and love it, it means I can have far more books than my home could ever hold or my wallet could ever run to (especially those wonderful out of print classics you can only pick up at £1700, ). But that doesn't mean I want real books abolished, or that my house isn't groaning with paper treasures I would not part with under any circumstances - not even a fire, I'd perish in the flames trying to save my beauties! Not just illustrated works, though I'm the first to admit that ebook versions of graphic material tend to be awful. There are books I will keep till they literally fall apart in my hands, and then I will do my damnedest to tape them together. I don't know why things always have to be put on an adversarial level, las if you can't enjoy the space-saving, throwaway ebook format without becoming a bitter enemy to paper books; or alternatively, as if you can't relish the joys of holding a real book in your hands without hating everything the ebook represents. Ebooks will never kill real books, any more than television killed radio, films or theatre, and any more than cds killed vinyl (as a number of major names are currently reissuing vinyls of their back catalogue of music...), or mp3s will kill cds. The media always love to drum up a good controversy out of nothing, but let's not get it out of proportion; these books do and will exist in the hands of collectors like ourselves, if the libraries ever do decide to dispose of their stock and electronicise it all. In fact we will all become immensely rich because even one of our less well-loved pulps will become hugely valued collectors' items.
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Post by rolnikov on Dec 11, 2010 17:59:22 GMT
I was on the BFS site last week and noticed a thread about the publications. I was astonished to see that some members would prefer a PDF or an ebook or other electronic gimmickry to an actual book. I'm not for a second knocking this preference. It is after all simply a preference but on the other hand I am really labouring to understand how anyone could prefer this. For me, there are some reasons that are specific to this book, and one that is more general. I'd like to read it before Christmas rather than waiting a month or two. Biddles kept the BFS waiting four months last year for another job that wasn't booked in. The BFS can't really afford to give these books to paying members, and as a committee member I don't pay, so other members have to pay for my copies. If it comes down to it, I'd rather have pdfs of our publications and put the money saved towards funding one of the BFAs we might otherwise have to abolish. The main reason though is that I'm more likely to actually read the pdf. There's also the best time of the evening; propped up in bed with the latest acquisition, turning the pages gently, putting the bookmark at the last page, Do people do that kind of thing with a lap top? I do most of my reading at night in bed too, but not with a laptop - that would be very uncomfortable. The iPad though is much more comfortable than a hardback or a graphic novel, the Kindle much more comfortable than a paperback. That's my experience, at least. Are we going the way of the charity shop bargain book. Is it all over for the book lover? Are we passe now, the dinosaurs facing the ice age? Please say no. You've got to vote with your money. If you keep buying paper books - new paper books, I mean - people will keep making them.
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Post by David A. Riley on Dec 11, 2010 18:54:41 GMT
"I'd like to read it before Christmas rather than waiting a month or two. Biddles kept the BFS waiting four months last year for another job that wasn't booked in."
That's another reason, Stephen, why it would have been better to keep the publications separate. At least there would have been a good chance of something being sent out before Christmas.
The bigger publication seems to take a lot longer to put together. I had to send my stuff off nearly a month earlier than I would have sent it previously direct to the printers. It would have been printed and ready for sending out to members even before the uncorrected pdf was emailed this time to the editors.
I don't know who does the laying out of the Journal, but it must be an immense job for them. Perhaps too big to get done in the time frame involved.
Pdf versions of BFS publications do sound a good idea, especially for those who have kindles, etc., and especially for something like Prism, which isn't exactly collectible. But most people, of course, don't as yet have such things.
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Post by dem bones on Dec 12, 2010 12:36:12 GMT
2. Books produced earlier are still around, and as long as nobody is planning to destroy them ...... what seem to be the standard policy of charity shops mentioned in these posts is not exactly inspiring, jojo. Live from the charity shop. Charity Shops Have No Charity!. another reason i doubt i'll ever take to ebooks, pdf's & co. with enthusiasm is in the thrill i still get from being let loose on a bookshop or on a market stall where there's always a chance that, along with landing that long sought paperback, you'll also get to strike a conversation with the dealer or a fellow customer - i've made valued friendships that way. for me, the creepy crawls of the shops, market, car boot sales etc are EVENTS, whereas downloading a file, not quite so much. but the fact that people are reading is the most important thing - how they prefer to do it is surely their choice.
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Post by Dr Strange on Dec 12, 2010 15:11:19 GMT
Real, actual, physical books every time. Some of the reasons have all ready been given by others, but books are also just damn fine ways to decorate a room; and I don't mean I would have any books on my shelves to "impress" anyone else - they have to be books I actually have enjoyed - just that I personally like the way those books look on my shelves, and I would much rather have them on my shelves than just about anything else (and that is including photos of my loved ones).
The other reason for choosing real books over e-versions may be somewhat peculiar to me, as no-one else has mentioned it - but I really like reading in the bath. I have occasionally dropped the book - but both me and the book have survived.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Dec 12, 2010 20:17:31 GMT
Real, actual, physical books every time. Some of the reasons have all ready been given by others, but books are also just damn fine ways to decorate a room; and I don't mean I would have any books on my shelves to "impress" anyone else - they have to be books I actually have enjoyed - just that I personally like the way those books look on my shelves, and I would much rather have them on my shelves than just about anything else (and that is including photos of my loved ones). The other reason for choosing real books over e-versions may be somewhat peculiar to me, as no-one else has mentioned it - but I really like reading in the bath. I have occasionally dropped the book - but both me and the book have survived. I'm a bath reader too - only paperbacks mind - the hardbacks are too heavy and I sometimes fall asleep. In fact I'm off to run a bath now and it'll be a bit of Jack Vance's Dying Earth and a warm soak
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Post by jamesdoig on Dec 12, 2010 20:45:46 GMT
That's the great thing about the vault - finding like-minded bath readers. My worst bath dropping? This Necronomicon press chapbook:
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Post by rolnikov on Dec 13, 2010 8:58:50 GMT
I'm not a fan of reading in the bath, admittedly, but people who do just put their Kindles in those ziploc bags.
I often read mine in a bit of rain - a folded over food bag keeps it safe from the water and doesn't get in the way of reading.
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Post by Dr Strange on Dec 13, 2010 12:53:00 GMT
people who do just put their Kindles in those ziploc bags. It's just like Buck Rogers in the 25th Century. Or maybe I mean Flesh Gordon...
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Post by franklinmarsh on Dec 13, 2010 13:52:00 GMT
another reason i doubt i'll ever take to ebooks, pdf's & co. with enthusiasm is in the thrill i still get from being let loose on a bookshop or on a market stall where there's always a chance that, along with landing that long sought paperback, you'll also get to strike a conversation with the dealer or a fellow customer - i've made valued friendships that way. for me, the creepy crawls of the shops, market, car boot sales etc are EVENTS, whereas downloading a file, not quite so much. but the fact that people are reading is the most important thing - how they prefer to do it is surely their choice. Yes! Very often (for me) it's the cover that's part of the whole experience. It's kind of like albums, first replaced by CDs, then (groan) downloads. Part of the excitement of an album was studying the cover whilst the music was playing. Like book covers, it was part of the whole package. Memorising the press quotes on the back of the paperback, trying to obtain different versions. I'm stuck in the past I know, and part of the thrill of books is what they meant to me in my adolescence (something which can never be recreated). Perhaps its a sign of growing old but things really don't seem the same. You can sit at your computer and find and/or buy virtually anything, but that cannot replace actually finding something there and then surely. I'm so glad the janitor of lunacy used the term 'event', because that's exactly what finding these things was. NB Compared to chatting to Dem on here, going down the pub with him is a major event, I can assure you. You wouldn't get that in cyberspace.
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Post by Johnlprobert on Dec 13, 2010 15:27:35 GMT
another reason i doubt i'll ever take to ebooks, pdf's & co. with enthusiasm is in the thrill i still get from being let loose on a bookshop or on a market stall where there's always a chance that, along with landing that long sought paperback, you'll also get to strike a conversation with the dealer or a fellow customer - i've made valued friendships that way. for me, the creepy crawls of the shops, market, car boot sales etc are EVENTS, whereas downloading a file, not quite so much. but the fact that people are reading is the most important thing - how they prefer to do it is surely their choice. Yes! Very often (for me) it's the cover that's part of the whole experience. It's kind of like albums, first replaced by CDs, then (groan) downloads. Part of the excitement of an album was studying the cover whilst the music was playing. Like book covers, it was part of the whole package. Memorising the press quotes on the back of the paperback, trying to obtain different versions. I'm stuck in the past I know, and part of the thrill of books is what they meant to me in my adolescence (something which can never be recreated). Perhaps its a sign of growing old but things really don't seem the same. You can sit at your computer and find and/or buy virtually anything, but that cannot replace actually finding something there and then surely. I'm so glad the janitor of lunacy used the term 'event', because that's exactly what finding these things was. NB Compared to chatting to Dem on here, going down the pub with him is a major event, I can assure you. You wouldn't get that in cyberspace. That's so true. The loss of the album cover was a big thing for me, and having my soundtrack LP sleeves of movies like The Fly and Nightmare on Elm Street replaced by crappy little wisps of booklets was quite a downer. Similarly whenever I'm reading a book I'll often take time to pause and look at the cover again, or read the back. And of course there's that 'holy' moment in book reading when you've just finished something wonderful ,and for a moment you hold the thing in your hands and just stare at it with a mixture of appreciation, awe and a bit of love. Instead of an ebook for which I can feel no affection for at all - a reading device with BATTERIES that can run out when they're not being charged by less-than-environmentally friendly electricity and which will doubtless make me wait in the future while 'updates are installed' or I may be told that my favourite old disks are 'not compatible with the current format' before I give up "books" altogether and take up stunt guinea pig farming instead. No idea where that last paragraph came from btw - it just sort of wrote itself.
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