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Post by jonathan122 on Oct 25, 2010 11:34:48 GMT
Whatever 'intellectual' means. If it means anything, I think I've always associated being "intellectual" with the idea of striving to attain knowledge. I see no reason why the knowledge in question can't be about giant flesh-eating praying mantises.  Slightly more seriously, I personally read different stories for different reasons; I'm a big fan of Robert Aickman's work, and I do like to have a go at unwrapping the layers of symbolism and classical allusions (mostly unsuccessfully!), but I also really enjoy a lot of the less subtle pulp horror we discuss here as well. I actually think this board does a very good job at covering both types of story, and I've certainly never found it anything less than welcoming (though I don't think I was around when the aforementioned "big argument" occurred...). On that note, I'm off to try and find something about killer crabs, preferably written by Henry James. ;D |
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Post by weirdmonger on Oct 25, 2010 12:13:58 GMT
On that note, I'm off to try and find something about killer crabs, preferably written by Henry James. ;D  |
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Post by franklinmarsh on Oct 25, 2010 12:15:23 GMT
I think it's what people make of it, Des. At it's inception, Dem set up a board dedicated to horror anthologies which can cover an awfully broad range of styles and subject matter. There were a number of miscreants who happened to wander in and use the place as a platform to celebrate literature of a rather specialised kind. I may have mentioned before that I took it as a chance to try and write about folks such as Guy N Smith, Timothy Lea and Richard Allen as though they were Shakespeare, mainly because no-one else would. If sarcasm be the lowest form of wit, we played on, using The Booker Prize as a particular Aunt Sally because no way would Shaun Hutson ever win one. It was a lark, a laugh and above all FUN. If people chose to see the site as just being a gathering place for people who loved shite books, so be it. These were tomes I genuinely loved because they were so looked down upon - by my parents, teachers, contemporaries, reviewers...and indeed anyone. I was surprised to find a story by Truman Capote in one of the Fontana Horror collections - but I couldn't diss him because he wrote In Cold Blood.
If anything you could call it a reaction against those who would restyle 'horror' something like 'Dark Fiction'. It was perhaps a reaction against perceived snobbery within the genre.
I kind of missed (or completely misread) the self-promotion thing but can understand that if a circle of people discussing things on a hopefully level playing field becomes inundated with other personalities touting their wares to the exclusion of discussing the things ...er...being discussed, there might be a backlash. I've no problem with intellectualism - as long as there's lots of blood in it.
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Post by weirdmonger on Oct 25, 2010 12:40:23 GMT
I've no problem with intellectualism - as long as there's lots of blood in it. As I said at the start, I have a split-personality on this subject. Hence, my avatar.  |
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Post by marksamuels on Oct 25, 2010 13:01:02 GMT
I don't think Vault's "anti-intellectual" when considered holistically. After, a quick rummage will discover threads devoted to Aickman, Machen, Campbell, James &c &c. It's more of a broad church than anything else.
Perhaps it's just not as prone to navel-gazing? Which I like. It's certainly not as far down the road like some others, i.e. more like "advertising boards" than "message boards". It seems as if they rarely talk about any other books not brought out by their own members (films, yes, strangely enough).
As for self-promotion, well, I've been banging on about my distaste for that side of things in public long before the "big argument" Des mentions. My view is that if you're worth reading, then other, unconnected, people (without prompting) will be moved to discuss what you write.
Mark S.
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Post by lemming13 on Oct 25, 2010 13:13:16 GMT
I agree with Mark - perhaps Vault is a place for people who care less about how they are perceived by others based on their literary tastes than they do about enjoying their reading? I know several people who sneer at my Fu Manchu collection as racist pulp, and show off their shelves full of Kazuo Ishiguro, Muriel Spark and Noam Chomsky; but I've read most of what's on mine (including the Chekhov, Chaucer and Vulgate Biblia Latina), and the ones I haven't are just waiting their turn. They, on the other hand, are mostly acquainted with the contents of their library by the blurb on the back and reviews by critics in the 'right' papers. I would rather have an honest, upfront reader of porno paperbacks than a hypocrite who buys a book because the title will give the right impression on their bookcase.
As for self-promotion, it's true that it happens. But how many authors lived and died without ever being recognised as great before the advent of the internet, which gives everyone a chance to show what they can do? But if you don't tell people it's there to read, it probably won't get read. As long as every post doesn't wind up as 'buy my prduct', I'm happy. By the way, dem, loved Wallachia.
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Post by franklinmarsh on Oct 25, 2010 13:16:46 GMT
perhaps Vault is a place for people who care less about how they are perceived by others based on their literary tastes than they do about enjoying their reading? I know several people who sneer at my Fu Manchu collection as racist pulp, and show off their shelves full of Kazuo Ishiguro, Muriel Spark and Noam Chomsky; but I've read most of what's on mine (including the Chekhov, Chaucer and Vulgate Biblia Latina), and the ones I haven't are just waiting their turn. They, on the other hand, are mostly acquainted with the contents of their library by the blurb on the back and reviews by critics in the 'right' papers. I would rather have an honest, upfront reader of porno paperbacks than a hypocrite who buys a book because the title will give the right impression on their bookcase. Superb, Lemmy! You have just well and truly struck the nail upon the noggin. As marvellous an encapsulation of Vault philosophy (such as it is) as is possible. |
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Post by weirdmonger on Oct 25, 2010 13:45:38 GMT
Superb, Lemmy! You have just well and truly struck the nail upon the noggin. As marvellous an encapsulation of Vault philosophy (such as it is) as is possible. If I have acted as a schizo catalyst with my *question*, I am happy. It was just that I saw the forum Janitor-of-Lunacy's recent references to 'intelligentsia' and the on-going quotation in his 'signature'. ;D |
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Post by weirdmonger on Oct 25, 2010 13:49:55 GMT
As for self-promotion, it's true that it happens. But how many authors lived and died without ever being recognised as great before the advent of the internet.... That's true, too. |
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Oct 25, 2010 14:32:33 GMT
perhaps Vault is a place for people who care less about how they are perceived by others based on their literary tastes than they do about enjoying their reading? I know several people who sneer at my Fu Manchu collection as racist pulp, and show off their shelves full of Kazuo Ishiguro, Muriel Spark and Noam Chomsky; but I've read most of what's on mine (including the Chekhov, Chaucer and Vulgate Biblia Latina), and the ones I haven't are just waiting their turn. They, on the other hand, are mostly acquainted with the contents of their library by the blurb on the back and reviews by critics in the 'right' papers. I would rather have an honest, upfront reader of porno paperbacks than a hypocrite who buys a book because the title will give the right impression on their bookcase. Superb, Lemmy! You have just well and truly struck the nail upon the noggin. As marvellous an encapsulation of Vault philosophy (such as it is) as is possible. I like that. From memory one the criticisms in that unfortunate debacle was that no one in the vault would be interested in The Worm Orouborous by Eddison which ironically is my favourite book (I have about seven first editions of it and most of the reprints set up like an altar in the office) E R Burroughs, Michael Moorcock and now (thanks to the vault) Guy N. Smith sit neatly next to Sir Richard Burton. Kingsley Amis and Mervyn Peake. I admit The Pan Horrors and Marjorie Bowen look a bit weird next Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals and Aristotle's ethics but the covers are all black. It did occur to me that, sort of by definition, the Vault is about the past and therefore modern horror authors, by definition in the present, are probably not in the exactly correct forum to promote their work. Of course other editors and writers of the Vault are specifically carrying a torch for the past and it makes sense to be here. I just like the atmosphere on the Vault. This is not to decry other forums which have other decent folks I am sure and other agendas no doubt laudable. But on the Vault it's like being in the old Palladium bookshop in Manchester - fully of dodgy characters, eccentrics and disreputable people sifting through piles of dubious books. Only here you get insights into their thoughts rather than just seeing them leave with the stack of books - that you wanted yourself - under their arm. |
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Post by dem on Oct 25, 2010 14:42:43 GMT
I just like the atmosphere on the Vault. This is not to decry other forums which have other decent folks I am sure and other agendas no doubt laudable. But on the Vault it's like being in the old Palladium bookshop in Manchester - fully of dodgy characters, eccentrics and disreputable people sifting through piles of dubious books. Only here you get insights into their thoughts rather than just seeing them leave with the stack of books - that you wanted yourself - under their arm. That's so true! When Des introduced this thread i was terrified that a trip down memory lane to revisit the incident that dare not speak its name (and sequel) would lead to a fresh exchange of hostilities, but it's ... not been so terrible. You're not such a bad bunch, you know.  By the way, dem, loved Wallachia. i love it too, lem (lemmy?!!!) , but perhaps the person you should tell is my friend and long-suffering co-conspirator Mr. Franklin "The Master of the Macabre" Marsh who wrote it (his other major crime versus literature is co-founding this board along with Ripper & self ). Ripton and his uncle also appear in the 'couldn't be bothered to think of a proper title' Halloween Serial - maybe and the epic Horror Of Dreadstone Moor, serialised over the first five issues of Filthy Creations. And you really should treat yourself to a ride on The Night Bus! how's that for a big juicy plug! It was just that I saw the forum Janitor-of-Lunacy's recent references to 'intelligentsia' and the on-going quotation in his 'signature'. ;D yeah, that still holds true for me, Des. |
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Post by franklinmarsh on Oct 25, 2010 14:44:26 GMT
Cheers, Dem. Here's your fiver.
Cheers, Lem. Enjoy.
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Post by dem on Oct 25, 2010 14:51:32 GMT
f***ing fiver for all that? what, are we living in Victorian times all of a sudden?
come to think of it, give it a few weeks and many of us will be ...
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Post by franklinmarsh on Oct 25, 2010 15:01:26 GMT
f***ing fiver for all that? what, are we living in Victorian times all of a sudden? come to think of it, give it a few weeks and many of us will be ... It's all I've got! And it's a Bank Of Scotland one. |
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Post by noose on Oct 25, 2010 15:04:05 GMT
It's all I've got! And it's a Bank Of Scotland one.Monopoly money has more clout to it! |
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