Abduction

[Steve]

I'm sure nobody really believes that any of the current active members would just lift someone else's work and send it to a 'zine' called 'American Writers', even with the best of intentions.

"Strange Fruit" is on the old board, by the way, which may or may not be significant.

I honestly can't see an atmosphere of mistrust developing here (though just between me and you, I've never been sure about that Rog character... always thought he looked a bit shifty...)

Craig has said what I suppose most of us would feel in this situation;
"the permission thing is kind of crucial. Its good to get a rapport with the people your writing for and also to get a bit of an ad for books or your website if you can."

(personally, I'd be most pissed off that they'd assumed I was American!)

I wouldn't bother with the cyberpublishing forum if you did want to go public with this as it doesn't seem to be particularly active - most of the posts are from 'admin' and are things he's found online and just cut and pasted into a message. Looks like he makes a habit of this sort of thing. It may well be that he thinks it's ok as long as he just gives the original writer's name - if so, it's probably a good idea if someone puts him right now.

MySpace would be a better bet so that some of his 3000 friends see how he runs his 'business'.

As Dem says, just give us a shout if you need us Craig, and all the best with getting this sorted.

redbrain said:

You should know that Girls Aloud's I Think We're Alone Now was a cover of one of Tiffany's records.

Have Girls Aloud covered the Tiffany 'classic'? It's times like this that make me glad I'm a semi-hermit - ignorance truly is bliss...

[Craig Herbertson]

Thanks everybody for the advice and everything. Most helpful and its clarified my thoughts re what to do about the kidnap. I will certainly keep everyone posted her Dem

I have now gone through a terrible 'did I send them the story on the net?" phase.

I've only just got back into writing shorts, thanks to the encouragement here on vaultofevil, and I went through a kind of flurry of checking out markets, I made a few queries about shorts to sites I learned about here.

As my life is a perpetual series of stress, no money, no time and less sleep, I keep thinking there might be in some kind of stressed out three in the morning zombie scenario, where I might have sent them the story. But every time I reflect on this I think - No. I had it ingrained on me years ago - one story, one mag as a general principle. So, the only possibility is sending Strange Fruit before I agreed with Rog that it should go in Filthy Creations. This is a very tiny window of time. And I really really can't remember doing that or, indeed, anything about this particular site, plus why would I send it to an American site which looks like its for Americans? Plus nobody said - yes we like your story, lets go for it.

The absolute bottom line about any story is that its nice when people like it so I am now more annoyed about compromising Filthy creations.

So, I have decided to err on the side of caution and simply write and ask where they got the story. I shall then think on when is see what they say

Its really great to get this kind of support,

Thanks again.

Craig

[redbrain]

billbunter said:

Yes strange how most of us tuck into a splatter movie, read about horrific torture, try to imagine the worst possible scenarios for our next creative act and then maintain an easy camaraderie on the net

Perhaps reading about/watching on film extreme badness helps purge us of the urge to commit some more commonplace day-to-day badnesses.

[redbrain]

steve said:

redbrain said:

You should know that Girls Aloud's I Think We're Alone Now was a cover of one of Tiffany's records.

Have Girls Aloud covered the Tiffany 'classic'? It's times like this that make me glad I'm a semi-hermit - ignorance truly is bliss...

Yes, indeed they have - and covered it rather well, I think.

[sean]

Craig have you had any luck with those people yet? I notice the story is still up there...

[Calenture]

billbunter said:

I have now gone through a terrible 'did I send them the story on the net?" phase.

I've only just got back into writing shorts, thanks to the encouragement here on vaultofevil, and I went through a kind of flurry of checking out markets, I made a few queries about shorts to sites I learned about here.

Craig, I don't know how many stories you sent or where, but possibly I can put your mind at rest about Strange Fruit. When we discussed the possibility of using it in FC, I asked whether you wouldn't prefer trying magazines like Fantasy and SF first. It's tightly plotted and would have been easily good enough. You said you were quite content with the FC arrangement.

You also said that most of your stories were of the wrong word-length for some magazines.

You should also ask yourself whether you'd have even considered a site named American Writers. And surely they'd have been in touch if you had been in touch.

Sorry this is delayed. About a week ago I posted that I was having some little computer problems - the thing started crashing. Still transfering data (15 DVDs later), but less excitement here now.

[Craig Herbertson]

Abduction update:

I've written and not got a reply. Will leave it a week and try again.

Interestingly the site has become inaccessible to my computer which now tells me I have to log into it. Might have pressed some silly button.

[Steve]

billbunter said:

Interestingly the site has become inaccessible to my computer which now tells me I have to log into it. Might have pressed some silly button.

I'm also getting a message that it's now a 'restricted site' and asking me to log in.

Dodgier and dodgier I reckon...

[dem]

steve said:

"Strange Fruit" is on the old board, by the way, which may or may not be significant.

I think it might be. I still log in there pretty much every day to clear out the new members with ropey e-mail accounts we've acquired overnight. There's usually at least three or four, sometimes it's as many as a dozen. I'd be very surprised if any of these pests were responsible for lifting Strange Fruit as they're not in the least bit interested in anything other than obtaining email addresses so they can bombard us all with once-in-a-lifetime offers for Viagra, Paris Hilton sex video's and penis extensions.

My policy to date has been to keep open the accounts of everyone who ever posted on old Vault, even if it was only the once or twice with 'buy my book!/ join my ULTIMATE board!" demands, but in light of recent events it way be wise to rethink that? Please advise.

This is gonna sound dreadfully paranoid, but we might also bear in mind that, If the board under suspicion has done what we think they have - and I don't like the sound of that 'restricted site' business at all - then it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that those responsible are aware of, and following, this thread ....

[carolinec]

admin said:

This is gonna sound dreadfully paranoid, but we might also bear in mind that, If the board under suspicion has done what we think they have - and I don't like the sound of that 'restricted site' business at all - then it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that those responsible are aware of, and following, this thread ....

If this was the case, then it might be a good thing. If someone responsible for this was following this thread then they should be well aware by now that taking someone elses work without permission is wrong. Also, anyone reading this thread - members or guests - will be able to form their own impression of what they think of that website bearing in mind this kind of behaviour.

Now, they can rectify this issue easily - and restore that website's reputation to anyone reading this thread in doing so. Simply respond to Craig's email with an explanation, apology and (if that's what Craig wants) an assurance that the story has been removed. If Craig is happy with this, he can then report back here - and everyone's happy!

But if the situation continues as it is, with no response to the concerns raised, anyone reading this thread is going to form their own conclusions about that site's behaviour, and they might not be good ones ...

[sean]

The fact that they've limited acess (and I've just tried - and failed- to start an account with them so I can see what is, or what is not there) shows they know exactly how wrong this behaviour is, and it looks like they intend to continue on their merry little way just as they please. Grrrr.

[dem]

It's little consolation to Craig, i know, but doesn't it strike you as self defeating and, ultimately, pointless for a site promoting "Contemporary writers", "American Fiction" (even if it is written by Europeans), a "Writers Directory" & Co., to refuse new accounts and effectively go into lock down? Who's gonna see it now beyond the administrator and staff members (if any)? How's he or she going to attract author's who'd willingly submit their work to the board now the only incentive - an audience - is gone?

[troo]

The plot thickens.

XBuild are a company that enables users to sign up and create their own websites, for a monthly fee. Thus it's impossible to dig to the bottom of who owns the "americanfiction2.xbuild.com" domain name.

XBuild's Terms and Conditions can be found here: sitemakerlive.com/1/tandcs.html

Among the T's & C's is the following information:
XBuild is owned by "Greek Attic Ltd", who nowadays trade under the name "SiteMaker Software Limited",

You agree not to use the SiteMaker to:

...

(b) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that you do not have a right to transmit under any law or under contractual or fiduciary relationships (such as inside information, proprietary and confidential information learned or disclosed as part of employment relationships or under non disclosure agreements);

---

SiteMaker Software Limited own a couple of self-making-website sites such as XBuild.com, moonfruit.com, myimagebox.com etc., but they also seem to be used by customers with genuine websites. As such they don't strike me as a 100% kosher business, because they have so many fronts and go to a great deal of effort to obfuscate the true ownership of their sites and companies.

Also if you visit www.xbuild.com/support.htm and select "Policies and guidelines" from the drop-down, then "What can I do if I have a problem with the content of another Sitemaker site?" you'll find their Abuse email address. As you've already followed their recommended procedure of contacting the website owner and receiving no response, I think mailing their Abuse team is the next step. They may do nothing, but they may also do something.

Even more interestingly, a lookup reveals that xbuild.com are hosted in the UK. This means that UK laws are 100% applicable, so if you get nowhere with XBuild's Abuse channel, you can take it to THEIR hosting company, PSINET (now Telstra), and raise an Abuse complaint with them

For full details on the network lookup, check: network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=express&host=americanfiction2.xbuild.com

Telstra's code of practice is here: telstra.co.uk/code-of-practice

In the first instance try the [e-mail] and ask them for a copy of the Terms and Conditions a customer must sign to use their hosting services, as you believe a customer of theirs is contravening them and you want to confirm before raising a complaint.

Hope that helps!

[Craig Herbertson]

Yes its all gone a bit weird but not in a mongery way.

I take your points dem about the consolation prize and also the lock down.

We are probably being watched but then who better to deal with that than people who've dealt with crabs, werewolves, plagues of zombies and worse still, members of our own board,

Its probably time to be a bit careful about this particular issue but I' don't think we should let it get us down. Anyone think it would be better to stop discussing it on the public forum?

Craig

[dem]

Ignore all that, Craig, and just go by Troo's advice. Bloody brilliant and way beyond the call of duty!

Troo. Remind me never to mess with you!