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Post by Knygathin on Jun 29, 2023 9:14:11 GMT
Do you think a story/novel is best started with a visual presentation of a scenery, or with a piece of action, or with an inner mental condition, or a philosophical statement - or all four at the same time? Lovecraft had a knack for covering all four in the same sentence, or at the very least within the same paragraph.
Are there definable structures and patterns that outline good story build-up? Do experienced (non-hack) authors write by "numbers"? Or is it an obscure and indeterminate art form?
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Post by andydecker on Jun 29, 2023 10:40:21 GMT
Are there definable structures and patterns that outline good story build-up? Do experienced (non-hack) authors write by "numbers"? Or is it an obscure and indeterminate art form? 1: How do you define "good" story build-up? What is a "bad" story build-up? Evidently a story which doesn't work, I guess, but how often do you find readers agreeing 100% on the same piece? Even technicalities differ. Compare for instance a short-story by Agatha Christe and one by Dashiell Hammett. Very different in approach and writing. Who is to say what is better? Or works better? And then compare those with a romance story and a sf story.
2: I think the term "hack" writer has been depleted of any meaning like the term cult-movie. Or porn. IMHO only a very experienced author was/is able to deliver so-called hack-work, if you take the original meaning: commercial writing delivered under economical and/or deadline pressure.
3: What do you mean? The novel? The short story? Commercial writing as opposed to self-published? Any piece of text?
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Post by PeterC on Jun 29, 2023 13:05:36 GMT
Don't worry - it will soon all be done by machines. Readers will just press a button to denote the category of story and writing style they prefer.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jun 29, 2023 20:09:48 GMT
Do you think a story/novel is best started with a visual presentation of a scenery, or with a piece of action, or with an inner mental condition, or a philosophical statement - or all four at the same time? Lovecraft had a knack for covering all four in the same sentence, or at the very least within the same paragraph. Are there definable structures and patterns that outline good story build-up? Do experienced (non-hack) authors write by "numbers"? Or is it an obscure and indeterminate art form? "He ran toward the imagined trees." You continue the story.
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Post by Knygathin on Jun 30, 2023 7:31:18 GMT
Don't worry - it will soon all be done by machines. Readers will just press a button to denote the category of story and writing style they prefer. Don't ever let yourselves be deceived and entrapped by A.I., folks.
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Post by ramseycampbell on Jun 30, 2023 12:43:17 GMT
For me each story determines its own style of opening, and I tend to follow my instincts.
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 1, 2023 0:35:53 GMT
For me each story determines its own style of opening, and I tend to follow my instincts. Sounds like complete TRUST in being led along by the story, without worry about technique or doing right or wrong. Writing as a second breathing. The craft itself being inside the motor memory, like kung fu, riding a bicycle, or zen in the art of archery. All effort freed to be spent on the exploration of the world itself. A complete organic approach might be to have no idea even where the story will lead, and follow it step by step as it develops. I think David Lynch works like this. He also says the subconscious has vast stores of unused potential to be tapped; in his case with the help of TM meditation. But most writers probably work from at least a roughly preconceived story outline, and then patch it all together. With the risk of the story becoming somewhat stiff.
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 3, 2023 12:14:07 GMT
Talent, much practice, inclination to keep doing it, having the passion for saying something, reading others and assessing what one likes about those. ... All of these things melding over time, into a comfortable subconscious ability to write.
There is a book by Damon Knight called Creating Short Fiction. I hear it is good. It might give some useful techniques. Although, writing by numbers, I am sure, will not help without also doing the above more longterm steps.
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Post by andydecker on Jul 3, 2023 16:06:14 GMT
There is a book by Damon Knight called Creating Short Fiction. I hear it is good. It might give some useful techniques. Although, writing by numbers, I am sure, will not help without also doing the above more longterm steps. You can fill a library with books about writing or screenplay-writing. Maybe you should start with something more modern than Knight, this must be 60 years old. Stephen King's On Writing is a nice read, more about fundamental stuff than techniques if I remember correctly, but it gives an impression. One can skipp the memoir parts if they are not of interest.
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 3, 2023 22:07:22 GMT
... Maybe you should start with something more modern than Knight, this must be 60 years old. ... That's alright. 60 years back was a fine time of succinct writing. I wouldn't mind if it was 90 years old, from back in the heydays of Weird Tales. Or 120 years, hearking to the likes of Arthur Machen and Walter de la Mare. Or 180 years, listening to Poe's advice.
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 10, 2023 8:02:23 GMT
The most convenient and easiest way to start writing a story, must surely be in the form of a letter. It leaves the path open and free to explore, without formal demands and mental pressures of doing right and wrong.
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 11, 2023 11:14:28 GMT
Perhaps most important is to be a salesperson, and use every opportunity to promote oneself. Diffidence leads nowhere.
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 11, 2023 12:58:03 GMT
And to be an unscrupulous thief. To steal from the best writers.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jul 11, 2023 14:08:46 GMT
And to be an unscrupulous thief. To steal from the best writers. You are planning something. We can tell.
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Post by andydecker on Jul 11, 2023 14:57:31 GMT
Perhaps most important is to be a salesperson, and use every opportunity to promote oneself. Diffidence leads nowhere. I guess this is step 2. Step 1 would be to put a few interesting stories on paper.
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