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Post by andydecker on Mar 8, 2021 18:55:18 GMT
In the Vault I often read about publishers like Kimber or Robert Hale who produced their books only for British libraries.
How did this work exactly? Were these books not distributed to book shops and could only be lend in public libraries? Were the books avaiable for free or did the customer have to pay an annual library fee? Or was he charged for these special editions?
The whole idea of original books only available in libraries is very different, here in Germany this system is not known. Libraries just offer the usual editions to the public. To think that a publisher just produce a fixed number of books, which robs the writer of any royalties, is intriguing. On the other hand the writer wouldn't have to face the uncertainties of the market and would have a build-in audience.
Is this still done? I know that Hale produces still books like their western, but I don't know how they are distributed.
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Post by dem bones on Mar 8, 2021 19:41:41 GMT
I'm not sure they were exclusive to libraries exactly, but the libraries were certainly a main outlet. Then as now, it cost nothing to borrow a book provided you'd registered with your local library (for free). According to Stephen Jones, Chetwynd-Hayes "was always proud that each year he was one of the highest earners of the annual Public Lending Right based on the number of times an author's books are loaned out from libraries in the UK." I should imagine Peter Haining and Mary Williams made a few bob too - their hardcovers were a fixture in the libraries I frequent[ed], right through to the turn of the century. With the death of William Kimber, several titles hit the remainder shops - stacks of RCH and Amy Myers for 50p a time. Took ages to clear them. No-one was interested. Same with the H. R. Wakefield 'Best of' collection. Piled to the ceiling.
Tragically, too many public libraries fell victim to severe Govt. "austerity" cuts, and, of course, physical books fell out of fashion for a time (though they seem to be making a comeback, if only as props to pose before in zoom conferences to show off one's academic leanings.)
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Post by helrunar on Mar 8, 2021 20:13:54 GMT
Those Robert Hale titles with an occult, esoteric, witchy or supernatural slant had such gorgeous covers and the books were so beautifully done. I have only ever actually seen a couple given that I live in the United States of Mordor. When I've seen them for sale via online vendors, the prices are always quite high.
I think publishers in the US used to do "library editions" of books that the titles always came out in regular editions sold to the public.
I heard at a panel discussion several years ago (at least five years back) that print books were making a substantial comeback in terms of sales. With the pandemic at play, however, I would imagine that print sells fell off substantially during the debacle that was 2020.
H.
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Post by andydecker on Mar 8, 2021 20:21:22 GMT
Thanks for the infos! Interesting.
Before the net I often did research in our city library and was a registered customer. Back then registration was free. Nowadays things also have changed a lot. To lend books cost an annual fee. It is small, granted, but as the range of current novels is not that interesting for me I never bothered. I am so much behind on the bought books, why should I lend even more?
Public libraries are communal not federal here. They also get closed, but this is more a by-product of modern media and not enough visitors. Frankly I am not much better then the average illiterate in this regard. Can't remember when I last visited our public library for just browsing or soaking the atmosphere. I used to love it so much. Could spend hours reading magazines I would never buy.
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Post by jamesdoig on Mar 8, 2021 20:44:21 GMT
In the Vault I often read about publishers like Kimber or Robert Hale who produced their books only for British libraries. How did this work exactly? Were these books not distributed to book shops and could only be lend in public libraries? Were the books avaiable for free or did the customer have to pay an annual library fee? Or was he charged for these special editions?
There was a huge circulating library system here in Australia, similar to the UK and US, between about 1920 and 1950 - nation-wide there were thousands of circulating libraries ranging from the very small (with maybe a few hundred books) to the very large, including some library chains. People would pay 2-3d each week, and the books were usually the cheap reprints that publishers like Herbert Jenkins, Wright & Brown and many others would produce. The books needed to be sturdy to keep them in circulation, which was why they'd cut up the dust jacket and paste the cover on the front of the book. Romances and Westerns were the biggest sellers, followed by mysteries/thrillers (of course, horror didn't exist as a genre in book marketing and was lumped into mystery or thriller). The war seems to have made a big impact with paper rationing, but as a phenomena circulating libraries continued well into the 1950s here - what killed it was the emergence of cheap mass-market paperbacks. What replaced circulating libraries? When I was a kid in the 1970s there were heaps of book exchanges around - basically very cheap 2nd hand bookshops where you get credit when you returned a book (almost all paperbacks) - I've still got quite a few of these with a sticker on the cover with the price of the book and "credit on return" underneath. Sorry to hear you have to pay a subscription Andy - here public libraries are still free, and writers are still paid a small amount based on loans.
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Post by dem bones on Mar 9, 2021 6:59:41 GMT
Personally, the library has been a big miss during lock-downs. It's not that I loan much from the shelves, but I often order stuff in - it was thanks to the lovely Watney market staff I finally got to read Chetwynd-Hayes' god-awful 'The Psychic Detectives' and Syd Bounds' fab large-print paperback, 'Seance of Terror'. Libraries are not just about books (or, if you're that way inclined, DVDs & Co.), they're crucially important community centres. The aforementioned Watney has hosted coffee mornings for the over-60's since their club was demolished. I know some who use it, and the group is a lifeline to them. You worry how they're coping without it.
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Post by andydecker on Mar 9, 2021 9:04:22 GMT
Sorry to hear you have to pay a subscription Andy - here public libraries are still free, and writers are still paid a small amount based on loans. As far as the writers are concerned, they also get money based on loans. It is rather complicated and I think there is a difference between science libraries and public libraries. Out of curiosity I looked the current fee up. A registration card costs 20 GBP annually for adults, kids up to 18 are free, students pay a reduced rate and people who are on some social funding pay 2,50. I guess this may vary from city to city, but noch much. Personally, the library has been a big miss during lock-downs. It's not that I loan much from the shelves, but I often order stuff in - it was thanks to the lovely Watney market staff I finally got to read Chetwynd-Hayes' god-awful 'The Psychic Detectives' and Syd Bounds' fab large-print paperback, 'Seance of Terror'. Libraries are not just about books (or, if you're that way inclined, DVDs & Co.), they're crucially important community centres. The aforementioned Watney has hosted coffee mornings for the over-60's since their club was demolished. I know some who use it, and the group is a lifeline to them. You worry how they're coping without it. I have to confess that I don't know much about our communal activities. But I know that they do a lot for children. In my city, which is about 360000 citizens, there is the main branch, a large old buidlung, with another house across the street especially for kids and YA, and nine separate local branches.
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Post by pulphack on Mar 9, 2021 10:51:14 GMT
Simply put, library publishing worked like this. Back in the day, with the amount of circulating libraries run by the likes of Smiths and Boots in the UK, and their equivalents in Australia, as well as public libraries who wanted to have popular fiction to ensure they had some footfall other than students or researchers, there was a market that had the finance and the public pull to ensure that if you put out a hardback that was in a popular fiction category then you could ensure a certain sale that would enable you to plan a print run that would make a profit. It might not be large, but the turnover would be consistent. It was a business model that worked for the likes of Hale and Herbert Jenkins, and enabled them to take a punt on other material (fiction and non-fiction) that may be a gamble in terms of sales. Selling these books directly to libararies also meant that you didn't have to worry about things like shelf space and sales reps for shops, and there was no sale or return - cash changed hands, job done. It meant, of course, that generally there was only the one print run of a title as the turnover also demanded a stream of new titles. That's probably why a lot of the sought after titles from library houses are so rare and expensive (particularly pre-1940: the war, salvage, etc). For writers it meant a small but regular income if they could keep churning it out - this is why the likes of Gerald Verner aka Donald Stuart were so prolific, and why writers of Dixon Hawke, Sexton Blake etc changed the character names and republished for a different market. Cheap paperbacks put a hole in this, along with TV and burgeoning mass entertainment forms, so by the time Kimber was doing it, they were a dying breed and just clinging on. I remember a lot of books like that in the library in the 1970's, and paperbacks in plastic covers replacing them in the 1980's as they were cheaper to buy in. In terms of sales to book shops, there may have been limited selling, but it was a waste of resource and energy to direct sales there when the libraries could guarantee a run. Kimber titles turning up in remainder shops was a sure indication of the death of the library publisher, as it meant that even their limited print runs were no longer reaching the target market.
I know this is all about money and not about the content of the books, but then everything from the novel becoming single volume to paperbacks and beyond is driven not by the content but the by the actual engine of dissemination.
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Mar 9, 2021 15:21:48 GMT
Libraries are not just about books (or, if you're that way inclined, DVDs & Co.), they're crucially important community centres. I agree wholeheartedly with this, having haunted various libraries over the years. Some of my friends are librarians, and they do great work.
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Post by cromagnonman on Mar 9, 2021 15:41:59 GMT
Gollancz was another prominent supplier of public library stock. I have vivid memories of entire bookcases taken up by their distinctive yellow wrappers. Because one of the knock on effects of having the library system as a customer was that there was no need to invest the same sort of effort into design and packaging that retail sales necessitated. People simply do not browse in the same way in libraries as they do in bookshops.
Gollancz made something of an asset out of minimalist design. Hale's approach was somewhat different. Photo covers of quite mind numbing banality on the one hand while at the same time being loyal patrons of the brilliant Walton sisters. Barbara especially should be every bit as well known as McGinnis. She was that good.
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Post by Dr Strange on Mar 9, 2021 15:51:08 GMT
I heard at a panel discussion several years ago (at least five years back) that print books were making a substantial comeback in terms of sales. With the pandemic at play, however, I would imagine that print sells fell off substantially during the debacle that was 2020. There is quite a lot of geographical variation, but book sales seem to have increased during the pandemic, at least in the UK - Over 200 million print books were sold in the UK last year – the first time since 2012 that number has been exceeded. Total value was £1.76 billion. The volume of print books sold grew by 5.2 per cent in 2020 compared with 2019 - the biggest volume rise in the books market since 2007, and the highest annual value since 2009. Source: www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2021/01/over-200m-print-books-sold-despite-covid-19-restrictions-research-says/
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Post by dem bones on Mar 9, 2021 18:23:22 GMT
And as for the preloved market; Metro, 29 Jan. 2021
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Mar 9, 2021 19:15:38 GMT
When I am in Zoom meetings I try to angle the camera so that my books will not be seen. (Which is not easy.)
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Mar 10, 2021 19:44:24 GMT
When I am in Zoom meetings I try to angle the camera so that my books will not be seen. (Which is not easy.) Apparently I have inadvertently found another conversation-killer. My standard one is the topic of male lactation.
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Post by dem bones on Mar 10, 2021 21:44:26 GMT
Right on cue, a two page article in today's Mirror, Why We must Protect Our Public Libraries, primarily an extract from Allie Morgan's new book, The Librarian, which highlights their value to the poorest members of the community as refuge, learning centre, means of internet access, meeting place, somewhere to keep warm ... Link
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