|
Post by andydecker on Sept 4, 2020 18:08:15 GMT
It can be read on archive org. (Which of course isn't the same.) The Berkley edition. No, what I want now is to get it into my Kindles. I forget why this story is missing from so many "complete" collections. Is it because it was never published in Howard's lifetime? Does Grant own the copyright to it? I looked it up both in Berkley and Bean. Copyright to "Marchers" is attributed to Glenn Lord. "Grey God" is owned by August Derleth who published it in "Dark Minds, Dark Hearts". Guess Roy Thomas really got unlimited access, as he adapted both for his Conan.
|
|
|
Post by cromagnonman on Sept 4, 2020 20:07:22 GMT
Filler, or not, the Del Rey Bran Mak Morn doesn't have "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth" (included in Baen) or "The Grey God Passes". Aside the Bean edition some foreign Bran editions include the "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth" but not "The Grey God Passes". Which is understandable as it is quite removed from the Roman Britain of the Bran stories. I always wondered why Bran merits his own book. You can count him of course as the fourth major fantasy hero - Conan, Kull, Kane and Bran -, of Howard, but he is only the protagonist of two stories. James Allison has three. I think Bran's status stems from the fact that he is totemic of an entire period of Howard's creative thinking. The pictish phase. And the stories do develop several quintessential Howardian themes. But in terms of actual wordage he isn't that significant. And I dare say that if he didn't feature in the iconic "Worms of the Earth" then his status would be reduced further still. But at least Bran can claim the kudos of making it into print in Howard's lifetime which is more than be said for Cormac Mac Art: [four stories only and two of them unfinished]. And yet he has managed to bag two seperate titles of his own over the years as well as six pastiche novels and a comic book series. I think the Baen Howard library has many merits but they did have to grub around a bit to pad out the volumes. "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth" has really got no place being in the Bran volume. Only the presence of Turlough and Athelstane from "The Dark Man" justifying it at an enormous stretch. But the Cormac volume is the worst offender with a third of the page count given over to a pastiche.
|
|
|
Post by cromagnonman on Sept 4, 2020 20:41:26 GMT
No, what I want now is to get it into my Kindles. I forget why this story is missing from so many "complete" collections. Is it because it was never published in Howard's lifetime? Does Grant own the copyright to it? I looked it up both in Berkley and Bean. Copyright to "Marchers" is attributed to Glenn Lord. "Grey God" is owned by August Derleth who published it in "Dark Minds, Dark Hearts". Guess Roy Thomas really got unlimited access, as he adapted both for his Conan. The fact that "Marchers of Valhalla" only made it into print in 1972 may complicate its copyright status certainly. And its true that practically every printing since identifies the original Grant edition as its source. Something which invariably puts the wind up me. But I believe the real problem with the story lies in the fact that it doesn't exist as a single completed manuscript. There are a series of different drafts from which bits are lost and so the story is a reconstruction cobbled together from what remains of each. One early draft even references Thoth-Amon. But a Thoth-Amon living in pre Cataclysm Lemuria. For what its worth; there have been long promised plans from the REH Foundation to make all their limited edition titles available as POD editions. "Marchers of Valhalla" can be found in the volume SWORDS OF THE NORTH. Perhaps when these plans do eventually reach fruition kindle versions will follow. But at the current rate of progress I would bet on the next Cataclysm arriving first.
|
|
|
Post by Knygathin on Sept 5, 2020 3:35:27 GMT
Does anyone know if "The Marchers of Valhalla" is available in an ebook? Thanks! It can be read on archive org. (Which of course isn't the same.) The Berkley edition. I also have it on paper, ... and have read it many times. Wow. That must be a very special tale. Never even heard of it before. I must excavate this.
Unfortunately the archive.org file is a Daisy for print-disabled, only accessible with a special code from Library of Congress.
|
|
|
Post by andydecker on Sept 5, 2020 11:52:49 GMT
Unfortunately the archive.org file is a Daisy for print-disabled, only accessible with a special code from Library of Congress. [/p][/quote] I was at best lukewarm of the "read it for one hour" option. But as you can borrow it again without any waiting time and loads without problem on a tablet browser. I read a novel in this form. It was okay. Of course you have to have the time, but the traffic for some of the books seems to be non-existend. (Or I had just luck and nobody wanted "Longarm and the lonesome Widow". )
|
|
|
Post by andydecker on Sept 5, 2020 12:11:45 GMT
The fact that "Marchers of Valhalla" only made it into print in 1972 may complicate its copyright status certainly. But I believe the real problem with the story lies in the fact that it doesn't exist as a single completed manuscript. So the Bean and Berkley versions are different in places? I never checked, as I am no big fan of the James Allison stories, even if they maybe are Howard at his most human whishful thinking. I am with you on Cormac. It is not Howard at his best. While I like "Tigers by the Sea", even if I have it as a bit anachronistic in rememberance, I thought the Offut novels I read truly boring. Another proof that Howard's heroes are no material for long novels. (While I like some of the TOR's immensively, especially Maddox Roberts, they tend to drag in places.)
|
|
|
Post by cromagnonman on Sept 5, 2020 13:05:19 GMT
The fact that "Marchers of Valhalla" only made it into print in 1972 may complicate its copyright status certainly. But I believe the real problem with the story lies in the fact that it doesn't exist as a single completed manuscript. So the Bean and Berkley versions are different in places? I never checked, as I am no big fan of the James Allison stories, even if they maybe are Howard at his most human whishful thinking. I am with you on Cormac. It is not Howard at his best. While I like "Tigers by the Sea", even if I have it as a bit anachronistic in rememberance, I thought the Offut novels I read truly boring. Another proof that Howard's heroes are no material for long novels. (While I like some of the TOR's immensively, especially Maddox Roberts, they tend to drag in places.) No, the Berkley and Baen versions should both be the same. They're both copyrighted to Glenn Lord 1972. That's the version he reconstructed and supplied to Grant for the original hardback. How much the Foundation volume version might vary I couldn't say as I don't have it. I happen to like the James Allison stories. Much is made of the fact that they represent Howard apeing his favourite novel, Jack London's THE STAR ROVER. But in actual fact they are a product of an entire school of mainstream fiction that flourished between the 1890s and the 1940s: the past life regression/timeslip/primordial fantasy. There are so many examples of it that they could merit a book length study. The conceit really appeals to me. And its interesting to see that it has made a return in recent years although almost exclusively as chick-lit.
|
|
|
Post by Knygathin on Oct 8, 2020 16:04:45 GMT
I have not received the Del Rey Conan books yet, but got the Solomon Kane and Bran Mak Morn. The inside typography arrangement is excellent! And the page illustrations are some of the best I have ever seen. Normally I don't like illustrations interposed in the text, because I find it distracting; but these are so good, and neutral at the same time. The illustrator seems to have made some very sound and thorough research. Reminds me of classic old illustrations for Stevenson's Treasure Island, and N. C. Wyeth.
The cutting of the paper is a bit sloppy though, with the front cover of Bran Mak Morn being tilted, leaning to the right. Which kind of drives me nuts, because it disturbs my sense of balance. Still, the spine title is straight, which is most important. Don't know how they managed that.
|
|
|
Post by Knygathin on Feb 22, 2021 18:00:21 GMT
I have only the Baen 1995 edition of KULL. Do you know if it is of good textual integrity? If I were to sit down and compare the texts to the Del Rey 2006 KULL EXILE OF ATLANTIS edition, which stories are most likely to be marred by censorship?
|
|
|
Post by andydecker on Feb 22, 2021 19:44:39 GMT
I have only the Baen 1995 edition of KULL. Do you know if it is of good textual integrity? If I were to sit down and compare the texts to the Del Rey 2006 KULL EXILE OF ATLANTIS edition, which stories are most likely to be marred by censorship? I will have to check, but I don't remember the Baen edition of Kull being censored in any regard. Of course the Del Rey is the better edition if one wants a more scholary approach to the material, not to mention the fine illustrations included.
I always had a soft spot for Kull. I really like the mythology of the as humans disguised serpent men Howard invented practically as a throw-away idea . So many later writers who spend thousands of pages on their fantasy world building didn't even achieve half of what Howard managed in just one story. Here is enough conceptual material for 10 novels, and Howard just shrugged and moved on. A testament of his talent.
|
|
|
Post by Knygathin on Feb 22, 2021 21:39:25 GMT
I always had a soft spot for Kull. I really like the mythology of the as humans disguised serpent men Howard invented practically as a throw-away idea .
I wonder if he possibly got inspiration for the serpent men from C. A. Smith's "The Double Shadow". Or perhaps it was the other way around!! I wasn't too keen on the cover art for the Baen KULL, so I clad it in some thick paper made from various rough plant parts. I like to think of this little primitive book as an ancient artifact, that has survived down the ages, and been passed onto me from immemorial Atlantis.
|
|
|
Post by cauldronbrewer on Feb 22, 2021 22:03:34 GMT
I wasn't too keen on the cover art for the Baen KULL, so I clad it in some thick paper made from various rough plant parts. Baen is legendary for its terrible covers, though a few good ones sneak in from time to time.
|
|
|
Post by Knygathin on Feb 23, 2021 10:45:06 GMT
Baen is legendary for its terrible covers, though a few good ones sneak in from time to time. One of my favorite Jack Vance covers. I have both the Baen paperback and hardcover. Look at the bizarre ear of the demon.
|
|
peedeel
Crab On The Rampage
Posts: 61
|
Post by peedeel on Feb 23, 2021 14:45:08 GMT
I always had a soft spot for Kull. I really like the mythology of the as humans disguised serpent men Howard invented practically as a throw-away idea .
I wasn't too keen on the cover art for the Baen KULL, so I clad it in some thick paper made from various rough plant parts. I like to think of this little primitive book as an ancient artifact, that has survived down the ages, and been passed onto me from immemorial Atlantis. Oh, I do love the idea of this! Well done!
|
|
|
Post by helrunar on Aug 14, 2021 5:01:22 GMT
Folks, this interesting text (with a fascinating interview excerpt from a conversation with artist Roy G. Krenkel) was posted on social media today. The author is one Ian McDowell. I thought others who have followed this thread might find Krenkel's reminiscences interesting. I enjoy Frank Frazetta's art, but am not a fan of his Conan work. Bizarre, I know, but there you have it. Hel. Quote from Ian McDowell: It’s interesting to speculate what the famous Lancer CONAN covers would have looked like if Roy G. Krenkel had actually painted them, rather than merely giving his friend Frank Frazetta layouts and descriptions. But one thing we do know is that Krenkel was the Robert E. Howard fan and reader (Frazetta never seems to have read much of anything for pleasure), and that his Conan would have looked much more like what Robert E. Howard had in mind. Excerpt from 1976 phone interview with Krenkel by Arnie Fenner: AF: You were thanked in the front of the books as a “consultant”: what did you do? RGK: Oh, nothing much. Frank has never been a reader and I had read all of the Conan stories so I talked to Lancer’s editor—Larry Shaw—found out what stories were going to be in which book, and made suggestions to Frank. They never really give the artist a manuscript to read, you know, just suggestions or maybe a synopsis, so I was able to give Frank some ideas…except for the first one. [James] Bama had already been a huge hit a few years earlier with his first Doc Savage cover: you know the one, black background, Doc in a torn shirt. A real knock-out. That really introduced Doc to everyone and Larry wanted Frank to do the same for Conan…and history was made! Except [laughs] when Frank got the painting back he brought it over and I’m oooing and ahhing and finally said, “This is great, Frankie, but you need to give him a f*cking neck!” Conan’s shoulders were up around his ears! [Laughs] So I took out my knife and turpentine and scraped Conan’s head off. AF: You what?!? RGK: Scraped Conan’s head off. [Laughs] Before the war I had studied with [George] Bridgeman and after had gone to Burne [Hogarth]’s school so I knew a little more about painting with oils at that time than Frank did—though I was never all that good, especially when compared to Frank! Who is? All I did was scrape and prep the board, then Frank repainted Conan’s face and head—with a neck! [Laughs] AF: How long did it take? RGK: Oh, maybe an hour or two; Frank’s always been fast when he wants to be. He did it over an afternoon when we were hanging out and gassing. He worked on the girl, too—of course!—and made her more Frazetta-yummy. AF: So you suggested scenes to him… RGK: Yeah. Let me see…“The Frost Giant’s Daughter”—though Frank didn’t make the two giants “giant” and sort of modeled them after [Hal] Foster’s Vikings in “Prince Valiant”—uh…“Rogues in the House,” “[Beyond] The Black River,” and “[The] Scarlet Citadel,” with the big snake between Conan’s legs! [Laughs] For the novel [Conan the Conqueror] Frank did a big battle and for the novel-not-by-Howard [Conan the Avenger], Conan with a fruit bowl on his head saving the girl. I guess that’s in the book somewhere. [Laughs] Frank was bored around the last one [Conan the Buccaneer]: he really didn’t want to do them anymore so he just sort of copied one of his old Tarzan drawings and called it a day. Did you know he’s gone back and repainted it since then? It’s funny that Frank became so famous for Conan: it was just a job to him and his Conan doesn’t look anything like Howard’s Conan, not that Frank cares. Excerpt from 1998 conversation between Frank Frazetta & Arnie Fenner Arnie Fenner: Let’s talk about the Conan covers. Roy Krenkel is listed as a cover “consultant” in the front of the Lancer books… Frank Frazetta: That was all their idea, not mine. AF: Ok… Roy had told me years ago that he had helped by given you some ideas based on the different stories in the books… FF: Maybe. I don’t really remember, but they gave him credit because Roy was more of a fan than I was and knew the Lancer people, I guess—but I did Conan my way. I went right ahead and created this character that didn’t even resemble Howard’s description at all: mine is quite a different guy. He was what I thought a barbarian should look like, the ultimate barbarian. Howard’s description was quite different. He was leaner with shorter hair and hawkish features. I instead saw a scarred, a real monster sort of a guy. That’s just the way I felt a guy should look like at this point. It’s all personal. My interpretation of the feeling I get from it. Roy might have given me some ideas based on Howard, but he’s all mine. Some of these goofy fans say I look like Conan! That’s nuts! Look at those arms! Look at those scars! Yesh! [Laughs] www.muddycolors.com/.../a-little-frazetta-conan.../
|
|