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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 28, 2022 11:45:02 GMT
There's a film with a Civil War/ English Revolution/War of 3 Kingdoms setting, A Field in England, from 2013 I haven't seen. It's supposed to be an early example of the "revival of folk horror" phenomenon. Some find the film brilliant and others simply don't. Yes, I liked it - but not everybody did. It's also rather "psychedelic", which doesn't suit everyone's tastes. Ben Wheatley is an interesting director and his latest film, In The Earth, is more "folk horror" apparently (though I haven't seen it yet).
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jul 28, 2022 11:59:15 GMT
Ben Wheatley is an interesting director KILL LIST (2011), an even earlier "folk horror" outing, is brilliant. A FIELD IN ENGLAND is like a weird dream. REBECCA (2020) is absolutely terrible.
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 28, 2022 12:20:34 GMT
KILL LIST (2011), an even earlier "folk horror" outing, is brilliant. A FIELD IN ENGLAND is like a weird dream. REBECCA (2020) is absolutely terrible. Yes, Kill List is brilliant. I also like his black comedies - Down Terrace (2009), Sightseers (2012), and Free Fire (2016) are all worth a look. I was less keen on High-Rise (2015) - but I'm not a fan of J.G. Ballard anyway. I don't think I even knew about Rebecca. Seems he's got the attention of the Hollywood blockbuster studios though - his next is Meg 2: The Trench with Jason Statham, due out next year.
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 28, 2022 13:19:34 GMT
Things that are so fascinating about the times of Cromwell are political movements like the Levellers, however short-lived they were. This has become a footnote - at least from my perspective, I don't know if these things are part of general education in the UK or not - and it deserves to get more attention. They didn't figure in my general education - though I am Scottish, so I got lots about the Covenanters, "The Killing Time", and the like, instead. I think what is hardest to understand now is how back then "politics" and "religion" were completely intertwined and inseparable - your religious beliefs dictated your political views (or vice-versa). The first recognizable political parties in Britain were essentially defined along religious lines - the Whigs opposed Catholic succession to the throne and the Anglican church's persecution of "nonconformist" Protestant sects, while the Tories supported both Catholic succession and the established Church of England. Over time those two parties gradually evolved into the Liberal and Conservative parties, respectively.
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Post by andydecker on Jul 28, 2022 18:33:26 GMT
They didn't figure in my general education - though I am Scottish, so I got lots about the Covenanters, "The Killing Time", and the like, instead. I think what is hardest to understand now is how back then "politics" and "religion" were completely intertwined and inseparable - your religious beliefs dictated your political views (or vice-versa). The first recognizable political parties in Britain were essentially defined along religious lines - the Whigs opposed Catholic succession to the throne and the Anglican church's persecution of "nonconformist" Protestant sects, while the Tories supported both Catholic succession and the established Church of England. Over time those two parties gradually evolved into the Liberal and Conservative parties, respectively. Indeed it is hard to understand. When I grew up in the 60s and 70s Elisabethan England - at least in the media of the times and the shallow history education - was always the exciting underdog triumphing over evil Spain. Francis Drake and the Armada. 'Let's finish this game before we set sail' and so on. Nowadays I think of them more as two evil empires of religious fanatics not unlike the Taliban clashing - and I know that this analogy has its problems - , and which one is the more disgusting from the contemporary view is a matter of your personal taste. Both would have gladly execute you as a heretic if you stepped out of line. With your neighbours applauding. It is the same situation here in Europe. Try to wrap your head around the 30 Year's War. For some historians it is a religious civil war, for others it is European countrys fighting about territories and imperialism. Politics and religion are inseparable in this. Also only villains in this. Or not. Some of the murderous generals are still celebrated today in the country in some spots as defenders of the faith. This is deeply entrenched in society. At the time of my grandparents a marriage between protestants and catholics was often deemed unsuitable, even in the lower rungs of society.
You must have had at least a good general education in these things, Dr.
My was a sorry affair. I left school with 16 in 1976 and I was always interested in history instead of being bored by it like 95% of my classmates. At the time the curriculum hadn't even reached WWI, I can't remember if History was taught at all in my last year because of organisational problems. Pretty baffling for a country which lived in the shadow of the Third Reich and its atrocities. This has changed after countless reforms and is more present today, I guess. Still a normal middle-class bloke of my age had either to educate himself or didn't care about it at all.
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 28, 2022 19:06:41 GMT
Actually, I was pretty much bored by history at school too (actually, I was pretty much bored by everything that didn't fall under the heading of "science" at school). I really only became interested in history long after leaving school, when I started picking up the odd history paperback from secondhand bookshops and started to realize that I didn't really understand why things are the way they are now because I didn't know enough about what had led up to now. The (roughly) late 16th to late 18th C. is the period I find most interesting - all the religious upheavals, the questioning of established political and religious authorities, the birth of science, everything leading up to the Enlightenment. Though now, as I get older, I do find myself picking up more popular history books that cover times I actually lived through - because I now wonder if I really understood what was going on then either.
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Post by Johnlprobert on Jul 28, 2022 20:19:06 GMT
Oddly, there doesn't seem to be much folklore attached to Cromwell. Though there is as lot of myth, e.g. that he abolished Xmas (that was a decision taken by Parliament, not Cromwell personally). In fact, Cromwell was rather moderate in his "puritanism" - he was said to enjoy smoking, drinking sherry and beer, and music (there was even dancing at his daughter's wedding). See: www.britannica.com/biography/Oliver-Cromwell/LegacyI like the 1970 film Cromwell, though I seem to be in the minority on that - and casting Richard Harris as Cromwell was a stroke of perverse genius, given that Cromwell is one of the most hated figures in all of Irish history. I have a bit of a fascination with this period of British history. Another fan of CROMWELL here! And that music score is splendid.
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Post by Shrink Proof on Jul 28, 2022 21:00:59 GMT
"A Field in England" is wretched, arty-farty wankery of the first water. In between disconnected scenes featuring undeveloped characters about whom it is impossible to give even the tiniest of shits, there are several utterly pretentious "still life" sequences. These are seemingly made by a sixth form film student who's pushy auntie gave him a box of lenses and special effects filters for Christmas. Now armed with these, he believes that using them is Real Art and that he's now A Serious Director. One of those films where you keep thinking that this must be the end tableau (in slo-mo, what else?). And then there's another one. And then another...
Actually the real ending was good. Because then I left the cinema.
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Post by jamesdoig on Jul 28, 2022 21:23:40 GMT
If anyone should have a vindictive ghost, it is Cromwell. Couple of pages in Lore of the Land on Cromwell - no ghosts though:
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Post by helrunar on Jul 29, 2022 0:47:16 GMT
Dr Shrink Proof, I have a feeling your review of that Wheatley film was much more entertaining than trying to sit through it would be.
I've read some laudatory notices of Kill List but somehow don't feel inclined to have a go.
H.
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Post by helrunar on Jul 29, 2022 0:54:24 GMT
Thanks, James, that was very interesting, particularly the legends recounted at the end regarding O. Cromwell's reputed pact with the Devil.
The confusion between Thomas and Oliver is also interesting. According to an online source, Thomas was Oliver's great-great-granduncle.
Thanks for the scan!
Hel
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Post by dem bones on Jul 29, 2022 11:41:46 GMT
"The familiar of Oliver Cromwell, who had been initiated into the blasphemies of black magic by Menasses Ben Israel, a rabbi of Amsterdam, was a tall dark man with a sour frowning face. His name was Grimoald." — Montague Summers, Witchcraft & Black Magic, 1946. A ramshackle, witchcraft/ supernatural horror anthology in the making: English Civil War horror & ghost stories;
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Post by samdawson on Jul 29, 2022 16:17:10 GMT
Dr Shrink Proof, I have a feeling your review of that Wheatley film was much more entertaining than trying to sit through it would be. I've read some laudatory notices of Kill List but somehow don't inclined to have a go. H. Me too. The film remains inexplicably popular and held up as a shining example of folk horror. Feels like the emperor's new clothes to me.
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Post by Shrink Proof on Jul 29, 2022 19:00:25 GMT
Dr Shrink Proof, I have a feeling your review of that Wheatley film was much more entertaining than trying to sit through it would be. I've read some laudatory notices of Kill List but somehow don't inclined to have a go. H. It was definitely a WOMBAT - Waste Of Money, Brains And Time.
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Post by helrunar on Jul 29, 2022 19:50:07 GMT
Thanks for confirming my instincts on this one.
I have a television set now (I'm sorry my posts on this thread have veered so far off topic--I'm going intergalactic at this point) and I'm starting to think about all the films I've been "meaning to see" but haven't. Some candidates include Gretel & Hansel and The Shape of Water--I've been reading so many "Deep Ones" themed Lovecraftiana tales, and I'd enjoy seeing del Toro's take on this theme, though I guess the source for the film is the excellent Creature from the Black Lagoon (which seems quite Lovecraftian, now that I think about it). I just learned of a 1991 film version of The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, entitled The Resurrected--cast sounds potentially intriguing.
H.
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