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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 28, 2012 8:38:53 GMT
Short enough to read in ten minutes with a neat cover by Jeff Jones and some bonus illustrations by Tim Kirkby. Richard L. Tierney provides a forthright introduction and spills the beans that he completed some of these Cormac Mac Art tales. Kindly he tells us exactly how much he had to write. He suggests that Jack Palance would make a good Cormac which hopefully reminds the film viewing public that there was more to Howard than rippling giants straight out of the YMCA gym. Unfortunately, the stories themselves would do nothing to dispel this image. In the first 'Tigers of the Sea', Princess Helen is being sought by her brother, the king Gernith, her lover Marcus the Brit, who joins the party, Cormac himself, Wulfhere, the Danish pirate chief and a clan set of Picts, Celts, Danes, Dalriadians ....well anyone muscled and nasty you can think of really. In one fight scene on the beach, its hard to make out which tribe is attacking who never mind the succession of individual combatants. If I was a psychologist I could have a field day with the penetrations, the blood covered he-men and the orgiastic killing which splatter 80 pages. A reviewer compared 'Tigers of the Sea', to a relay race - www.pulpanddagger.com/conan/sea.html - and that's a fair comparison. The other stories in the volume are also reviewed with care at pulp and dagger and it doesn't seem worth repeating them - There are brawny heroes and they're usually killing each other. Despite all this apparent criticism, Howard lives his tales and they are full of energy and enthusiasm - I thoroughly enjoyed the lot. |
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Post by graphis on Jul 28, 2012 18:39:30 GMT
I love REH. I bought this whole series when it came out in the 70's, and still got 'em all. All have fantastic covers by Jeff Jones, some of his best ever work: he'd really found his own style by then.
Of course, it's Conan that overshadows most of his other work, and those original stories are still great, but there's some real gems amongst his other work. The Cormac stories here, and the Bran Mak Morn, as well as the Solomon Kane stories.
I'm no psychologist, but to me, all REH stories are about escape, from a situation, trouble, or even reality. And usually by the simplest most direct method. Not for him does anyone ever think his way out of a tricky situation with intelligence or cunning plan: it's brute force all the way, and only the strongest survive.
Howard himself clearly felt trapped in his small redneck town, and longed to bust out. Starved of stimulation, he'd break into schools at night and steal books (but always broke back in to return them). You can sense his pent-up frustration with his little world, and his longing to break out.
But all his tales are a rollocking good read, and while most are not strictly horror, they usually include some elements, whether it's a monster from another dimension, or just straightforward evil. His actual horror stories though, are really good: check out "Pigeons From Hell"!
And as for "criticism", sure, he'll never be put in the same camp as the Brontes or Zola (although I'd love to have seen him in the same room as them: he'd probably have punched Zola to the floor, and carried off all 3 Bronte sisters LOL), but he fucking started the genre. And that's worth applauding.
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Post by doug on Jul 29, 2012 13:13:55 GMT
I love REH. I bought this whole series when it came out in the 70's, and still got 'em all. All have fantastic covers by Jeff Jones, some of his best ever work: he'd really found his own style by then. Of course, it's Conan that overshadows most of his other work, and those original stories are still great, but there's some real gems amongst his other work. The Cormac stories here, and the Bran Mak Morn, as well as the Solomon Kane stories. I'm no psychologist, but to me, all REH stories are about escape, from a situation, trouble, or even reality. And usually by the simplest most direct method. Not for him does anyone ever think his way out of a tricky situation with intelligence or cunning plan: it's brute force all the way, and only the strongest survive. Howard himself clearly felt trapped in his small redneck town, and longed to bust out. Starved of stimulation, he'd break into schools at night and steal books (but always broke back in to return them). You can sense his pent-up frustration with his little world, and his longing to break out. But all his tales are a rollocking good read, and while most are not strictly horror, they usually include some elements, whether it's a monster from another dimension, or just straightforward evil. His actual horror stories though, are really good: check out "Pigeons From Hell"! And as for "criticism", sure, he'll never be put in the same camp as the Brontes or Zola (although I'd love to have seen him in the same room as them: he'd probably have punched Zola to the floor, and carried off all 3 Bronte sisters LOL), but he f**k**g started the genre. And that's worth applauding. I'm no psychologist either, but I think that lots of REH seems to me to about the individual mets the the world entirely on their own terms or at least to try to overcome the limitations placed upon them by the society in which they live. Lot's of Howard's protagonists are willful, forceful and rightous bastards. And I consider him to be a great writer. Maybe not Hemingway or Dickens, but a great writer none the less. and he also has his own shelf in my book case. Take care. Doug |
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 29, 2012 13:38:34 GMT
Have you seen the REH film biog, The Whole Wide World? Definitely worth a look, though it is very sad.
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Post by andydecker on Jul 29, 2012 18:43:13 GMT
It is interesting if you compare the few Cormac stories with the Offut novels. Offut was more historical correct in the details, but his Cormac novels are lifeless and dull. REH is a unique writer which is astounding when you think of his upbringing and his environment. He was one of a kind.
I have a soft spot for Cormac. It´s vikings, what is not to love. But he also seems to be less driven then Bran or Kane.
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Post by andydecker on Jul 29, 2012 18:46:23 GMT
Have you seen the REH film biog, The Whole Wide World? Definitely worth a look, though it is very sad. Sadly I never saw it. I imagine D´Onofrio is a good Howard. |
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Jul 30, 2012 1:18:24 GMT
Hi, graphis! Welcome to the Vault.
I loved The Whole Wide World. D'Onofrio is excellent in the part. The film is more about REH's relationship with Novalyne Price than his writing, but there's a nice scene where he describes Conan and another where he's excited to receive a letter from H. P. Lovecraft.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 30, 2012 15:19:10 GMT
Stuff Zola and stuff the Brontes  (except Wuthering Heights). R E Howard every time. It's just plain and simple enjoyment and I would challenge any of the so called clever authors to attempt something in the mold of Howard and get anywhere near the passion and excitement. Its like comparing a stroll around a dull museum to a ride on the roller coaster. I maybe came across as too critical - I had to pick up the Howard Collector straight after reading Tigers of the Sea. |
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Post by andydecker on Jul 31, 2012 8:31:28 GMT
I maybe came across as too critical - I had to pick up the Howard Collector straight after reading Tigers of the Sea. I don´t think so. There is a lot to be critical of. Sometimes Howard really gets on my nerves with his casual racism, not only his brothers of apes-stuff, also with his idiotic idealisation of his celtic (i.e. arayan) heroes. Ever read "Black Canaan"? Also his one-noteness which is very apparent if you read too much of him back to back. On the other hand, I guess I would share his views living 1930 in East Texas. On the other I can differentiate enough to enjoy his stories. If I read contemporary fantasy I often think how much the writers would benefit from even an ounce of the passion Howard put on the page. They are like the skinny guy on the beach in the famous Charles Atlas ads compared to the muscular guy opposite. |
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 31, 2012 10:49:37 GMT
I maybe came across as too critical - I had to pick up the Howard Collector straight after reading Tigers of the Sea. I don´t think so. There is a lot to be critical of. Sometimes Howard really gets on my nerves with his casual racism, not only his brothers of apes-stuff, also with his idiotic idealisation of his celtic (i.e. arayan) heroes. Ever read "Black Canaan"? Also his one-noteness which is very apparent if you read too much of him back to back. On the other hand, I guess I would share his views living 1930 in East Texas. On the other I can differentiate enough to enjoy his stories. If I read contemporary fantasy I often think how much the writers would benefit from even an ounce of the passion Howard put on the page. They are like the skinny guy on the beach in the famous Charles Atlas ads compared to the muscular guy opposite. Spot on. The racism reads very badly now but as far as I can determine it simply didn't have the modern connotations we take for granted and was more or less an unquestionable 'fact' in the culture he was brought up in. However, I'm not sure that Howard had the same attitudes as E R Burroughs, who generally used race as a simple romantic novel plot device and was prepared to use a Jewish hero, a black race who believed them selves superior to others, Apache Indians who were noble and virtuous as compared to white cowboy villains - simply to further a plot which he sincerely believed was just a pot boiler to keep you briefly entertained. Howard seemed to have a fairly genuine almost mystic belief in racial inheritance. But what the hell, why let that get in the way of a ripping yarn. |
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 31, 2012 10:56:05 GMT
PS - Have you ever read Tarzan the Untamed, Andy - there wouldn't have been any Germans left by 1918 if Burroughs had managed to follow up his words with action. He only slightly redeemed himself by an abject apology and an admission that he fell for all the propaganda like an idiot - then followed it up with a similar lapse against the Japanese in WW11 having seemingly learned nothing in between...
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Jul 31, 2012 19:59:21 GMT
Spot on. The racism reads very badly now but as far as I can determine it simply didn't have the modern connotations we take for granted and was more or less an unquestionable 'fact' in the culture he was brought up in. However, I'm not sure that Howard had the same attitudes as E R Burroughs, who generally used race as a simple romantic novel plot device and was prepared to use a Jewish hero, a black race who believed them selves superior to others, Apache Indians who were noble and virtuous as compared to white cowboy villains - simply to further a plot which he sincerely believed was just a pot boiler to keep you briefly entertained. Howard seemed to have a fairly genuine almost mystic belief in racial inheritance. But what the hell, why let that get in the way of a ripping yarn. My take is that Howard was neither the worst nor the best of his cohort when in came to racism (I've seen some of his fans go into contortions to demonstrate that he wasn't racist, but I didn't find their arguments persuasive). I think that Lovecraft was considerably worse--at least Howard wrote stories where his heroes fought alongside and/or on behalf of black people (for example, the later Solomon Kane stories), whereas Lovecraft's racial attitudes seem uniformly mean-spirited to me. All of this has been on my mind lately because Wordsworth's Henry S. Whitehead collection is due out next month. Though less well known that Howard or Lovecraft, Whitehead was another of the leading writers for Weird Tales. Many of his stories are set in the Caribbean and/or deal with voodoo, and I'm fascinated by how they reflect his complex racial attitudes (they're also well written and entertaining). I'm also intrigued by the contrast between Whitehead's "Williamson" and Lovecraft's "Arther Jermyn/The White Ape," both of which deal with the same racial-subtext-heavy theme in very different ways. To be fair to Howard, Whitehead didn't spend his life in Cross Plains, Texas; he not only went to Harvard but served as a deacon in the Virgin Islands. Also: Leaving his attitudes aside, Howard did write some ripping yarns. |
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Post by dem bones on Aug 1, 2012 7:18:43 GMT
Just reread Black Canaan - by chance it's reprinted in Stephen Jones' The Dead That Walk, one of my 200, 000 books-on-the-go just now. Mr. Jones' introduction warns that: "Although Howard was probably not an overt racist, the story is very much of the time and contemporary readers may find themselves uncomfortable with some of the language used. However, it should be remembered that these terms were in common usage back when the story was first published [in Weird Tales, June, 1936]." Regrettably, those same terms are hardly less prevalent today. For me, E. F. Bleiler tells it as it is in The Guide To Supernatural Fiction (Kent State, 1983), when he ends his synopsis: "a fine piece of regional horror if one can overlook the extreme racist point of view." For what it's worth: Robert E. Howard - Black Canaan: Kirby Buckner returns to the Arkansas swampland from New Orleans after a hag tips him off that trouble is afoot in his home town. Esau McBride and the local whites reckon the "swamp n****rs" are set to revolt, recent arrivals Saul Stark - ""talks better English than I like to hear a n****r talk" - and a mysterious, extremely beautiful, mixed race companion being the instigators. Buckner's already met the girl but is strangely reticent to mention her to McBride, even though three of her huge henchmen tried to murder him on arrival. The whites capture one of Stark's reluctant spies, Tope Sorely, and are set to beat him before Buckner intervenes on his behalf. Tope begs Kirky not to make him tell what he knows, terrified that Stark will put him in the swamp, a worse fate than any torture the whites can inflict. Stark, it transpires, is a powerful voodoo priest bent on killing the whites to become King of Canaan. The unnamed beauty is a Bride of Damballah who already has Buckner under her spell. Laughing in his face she warns: "At dawn Grimesville shall go up in flames, and the heads of the white men will be tossed into the blood-running streets. But tonight is the Night of Damballah, and a white sacrifice will be given to the Black gods." Buckner's only hope is to kill Stark and his woman before nightfall, but to do so he'll have to cut through the swamp and who-knows-what horrors lurking therein .... |
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Post by doug on Aug 1, 2012 11:59:28 GMT
Spot on. The racism reads very badly now but as far as I can determine it simply didn't have the modern connotations we take for granted and was more or less an unquestionable 'fact' in the culture he was brought up in. However, I'm not sure that Howard had the same attitudes as E R Burroughs, who generally used race as a simple romantic novel plot device and was prepared to use a Jewish hero, a black race who believed them selves superior to others, Apache Indians who were noble and virtuous as compared to white cowboy villains - simply to further a plot which he sincerely believed was just a pot boiler to keep you briefly entertained. Howard seemed to have a fairly genuine almost mystic belief in racial inheritance. But what the hell, why let that get in the way of a ripping yarn. My take is that Howard was neither the worst nor the best of his cohort when in came to racism (I've seen some of his fans go into contortions to demonstrate that he wasn't racist, but I didn't find their arguments persuasive). I think that Lovecraft was considerably worse--at least Howard wrote stories where his heroes fought alongside and/or on behalf of black people (for example, the later Solomon Kane stories), whereas Lovecraft's racial attitudes seem uniformly mean-spirited to me. All of this has been on my mind lately because Wordsworth's Henry S. Whitehead collection is due out next month. Though less well known that Howard or Lovecraft, Whitehead was another of the leading writers for Weird Tales. Many of his stories are set in the Caribbean and/or deal with voodoo, and I'm fascinated by how they reflect his complex racial attitudes (they're also well written and entertaining). I'm also intrigued by the contrast between Whitehead's "Williamson" and Lovecraft's "Arther Jermyn/The White Ape," both of which deal with the same racial-subtext-heavy theme in very different ways. To be fair to Howard, Whitehead didn't spend his life in Cross Plains, Texas; he not only went to Harvard but served as a deacon in the Virgin Islands. Also: Leaving his attitudes aside, Howard did write some ripping yarns. The worst offense that I ever read in Whitehead is he once used "pikninny" once to describe a Black child and some of his characters tend to roll their eyes when frightened. As far as I'm concerned Rev. Whitehead was fairly progressive forhis time. He always portrayed Islanders with respect and affection. And in his stories they are always human beings and not caricatures. "Black Canaan" is over the top racism wise even for REH. This is one of his stories that I could never ever recommend to a friend of color. At least he did portray blacks standing up to racist whites and not taking anyof their BS in at least one story. Take a look at "The Dead Remember" for a good example of this. Take care. Doug |
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Aug 1, 2012 13:15:23 GMT
As far as I'm concerned Rev. Whitehead was fairly progressive forhis time. He always portrayed Islanders with respect and affection. And in his stories they are always human beings and not caricatures. Agreed. Whitehead's stories sometimes include stereotyping and language that don't reflect modern views, but he seems to have made an effort to present Caribbean people and their beliefs in a nuanced and respectful manner. From the perspective of a horror fan, I think his views helped him write strong stories--voodoo tales by white writers almost inevitably carry some racial baggage, but Whitehead's often go beyond a simplistic approach ("Ooh, scary voodoo from the Other!") into some thought-provoking territory ("The Passing of a God" is a great example). |
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(except Wuthering Heights). R E Howard every time. It's just plain and simple enjoyment and I would challenge any of the so called clever authors to attempt something in the mold of Howard and get anywhere near the passion and excitement. Its like comparing a stroll around a dull museum to a ride on the roller coaster. 
