Is Vault of Evil anti-intellectual?

[Dr Strange]

Well, The Shadow At The Bottom Of The World is the collection I have, and I believe it was marketed as a sort of "Greatest Hits" at the time(?)... Anyway, it has The Last Feast Of Harlequin which has definitely appeared in quite a few anthologies. The comparison with Aickman is the most obvious one for me - much more about being unsettling than being explicitly scary or horrific; the feeling that there is something going on just under the surface; just glimpsed out of the corner of the eye; that the world really isn't running along the rational and benign lines we like to think it is. Paranoia, in other words - either delusional or entirely justified.

[Jojo Lapin X]

I find it particularly annoying when people liken Ligotti to Aickman. Aickman is a true original, whose stories deal directly with some substantive matter---it may not be clear what, exactly, but that is part of their appeal. Ligotti's fiction, on the other hand, is really only about itself and other fiction (including Aickman's). It is a highly artificial intertextual exercise in commenting on horror fiction, rather than actually writing it. That in itself would not necessarily be sufficient grounds for dismissing it, but it is delivered in an irritatingly mannered prose style the only purpose of which is to draw attention to itself.

[lemming13]

My own favourite is The Nightmare Factory (both standard and graphic versions), and my number 1 Ligotti story is The Sect of the Idiot. I agree with Dr Strange; Ligotti makes you feel like the world is just a veneer, and if you peel it back there is something terrible and inexplicable bubbling beneath. Ramsey does that for me, too.

[cw67q]

Jojo, I can understand why someone might not like Ligotti, I can even think of reasons as to why he might not appeal to some readers, but the reasons your present baffle me. I do not recognise Ligotti at all from your description.

- chris

[jamesdoig]

It appears the entire higher education sector in the UK is turning anti-intellectual. Lifted from the satirical Poppletonian:

Our vice-chancellor has vigorously defended the response of Universities UK to the Browne Review.

Speaking to our reporter Keith Ponting (30), he commended UUK's decision to say absolutely nothing whatsoever about the abolition of all public funding for the arts and humanities.

He also praised UUK's total silence on Lord Browne's view that student courses should primarily be evaluated by their employment returns.

Neither was he at all "perturbed" by UUK's decision to remain completely mute about the Browne proposals for a centralised intervention in admission standards and course content.

When pressed by Ponting for his overall view of UUK's failure to respond in any way at all to any aspect of the Browne Review, he described it as "welcome evidence, in a world of change, of UUK's consistent commitment over the years to ineffectual passivity".

Top-Shelf Studies
Our senior lecturer in creative writing, Dr Hank Johnson, has declared that he is "simply moving with the times" in his decision to introduce a new BA course in Filthy Fiction.

Speaking to The Poppletonian, Dr Johnson said that he thoroughly agreed with the recent contention by Farah Mendlesohn, reader in creative and media writing at Middlesex University, that "creative writing has changed" and "moved away from literary fiction to embrace genre fiction".

"In these changed times", said Dr Johnson, "when there is more and more market demand for writing on such genre topics as girl-on-girl action, teens coming of age, soaked stockings, young harlots' finishing school and anal mania, it would clearly be an abdication of responsibility to focus academic attention solely upon finding another Kazuo Ishiguro."

"Filthy Fiction" indeed...

Pretty soon the Vault and PF will be on required reading lists at universities around the country.

[lemming13]

Now that's a course I'd sign up for - if I couldn't get a job teaching it, that is! But the UK has been anti-intellectual for its entire history, seems to me, speaking as someone who was abused at school for actually reading for pleasure, and recalling passages in certain Victorian classics in which youngsters are derided for the same thing. It has always been more acceptable to be a brawling thug with a mouthful of phlegm and an ability to kick a ball (in all possible senses) than to be a bookworm. Anybody in the vault ever had some yob yell 'sports fan!' at them as an insult? Bet you have heard smart alec, specky four eyes, bookworm, nerd, geek...

[Jojo Lapin X]

Nov 4, 2010 1:23:43 GMT cw67q said:

I do not recognise Ligotti at all from your description.

Make sure it really says Ligotti on the stuff you read, rather than, for instance, Logitti (author of "The Last Feast of Pinocchio" and others).

[Dr Strange]

Have to say, I don't recall anyone ever really being too bothered (or even remotely interested) in what/if I was reading outside the classroom when I was a kid. I had friends who read the same sort of stuff as me, friends who read other things, and friends who read nothing at all: It just didn't seem to matter.

And now, well, I am long past the point of needing the approval of anyone else (even of people I like and respect) when it comes to my choice of reading (or music, or how I dress, how I speak, or anything else). Which makes me wonder a bit more about this "anti-intellectual" accusation, and whether it isn't just ever so slightly "needy" - the need to hear that others approve of what you are into, as if that matters.

[cw67q]

Nov 4, 2010 19:25:52 GMT Jojo Lapin X said:

Nov 4, 2010 1:23:43 GMT cw67q said:

I do not recognise Ligotti at all from your description.

Make sure it really says Ligotti on the stuff you read, rather than, for instance, Logitti (author of "The Last Feast of Pinocchio" and others).

Actually Jojo I think you'll find that "The Last Feast of Pinocchio" is one of Aickman's, although more usually printed under it's more concise alternative title of "Wood". Don't worry though, I can understand how people get Aickman and Ligotti mixed up

- chris

[Jojo Lapin X]

Nov 5, 2010 11:57:58 GMT cw67q said:

Actually Jojo I think you'll find that "The Last Feast of Pinocchio" is one of Aickman's, although more usually printed under it's more concise alternative title of "Wood". Don't worry though, I can understand how people get Aickman and Ligotti mixed up

I am writing this from inside your house.

[weirdmonger]

As this thread already exists, I thought some here may be interested in yesterday's posting of an interview with Laird Barron about anti-intellectualism in Horror:
www.sfsignal.com/archives/2010/12/be-my-victim-laird-barron/

[dem]

Dec 25, 2010 8:40:17 GMT weirdmonger said:

As this thread already exists, I thought some here may be interested in yesterday's posting of an interview with Laird Barron about anti-intellectualism in Horror:
www.sfsignal.com/archives/2010/12/be-my-victim-laird-barron/

Happy Christmas, Des!

Mr. Barron comes across very well when Lee Thomas lets him get a word in. The question (?) that begins "And it has become increasingly difficult to know who you can believe when it comes to recommendations" goes on forever, though i agree entirely with the point raised that message board recommendations for books should be approached with great caution. i knew before i even began reading that poor old "lowest common denominator horror" would get the blame for everything.

The two subjects aren't inextricably linked, but as the 'bust up' is alluded to several times earlier in the thread, here's co founder & assoc editor of Skullvines Press, Jerrod Balzer, who is possibly not entirely unsympathetic to concerns expressed at the time. He just puts it more diplomatically. i found this link on David A. Riley's blog.

Promote without Being a Pest

[David A. Riley]

Going on from what dem said, I don't think the argument is about the Vault being anti-intellectual. I think most regular members are after stories or novels that have some sort of genuine merit, whether that's by being literary or not or by being shamelessly good at what it sets out to do, including to shock and/or horrify. The one thing that most regulars do not like is shameless self promotion, where posters are interested only in talking about their own work, like a psychotic salesman who just won't shut up talking about what they're trying to sell.

Does anyone remember the talky toaster in Red Dwarf?

[Craig Herbertson]

Oh yes. Loved Red Dwarf.

[weirdmonger]

I don't think being anti-intellectual can be equated with creaming-on-publicity. But I recognise that this thread has got itself a bit entangled in debates on both.