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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 22, 2010 13:42:36 GMT
Yes, I would also place them as about equal (when at their best) - but I also think Blackwood's "average" is a bit better than Machen's. As I have probably said before, Machen can be just a bit too quasi-religious at times for me (and I think that is also when he is most seriously "dated" in his style).
To add to the list of "Panistic" stories, there is the very last story to be published by Blackwood - "Roman Remains" (1948). And it seems that the afore-mentioned "The Trod" was his penultimate story (1946).
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 22, 2010 19:03:08 GMT
Writers at their best have a subtly persuasive quality, neither melodramatic at one extreme nor humdrum at the other. monker
M.R. James typifies this for me: the balance of the utterly prosaic and mundane with the inexplicable and horrific. Blackwood and Machen provide different but satisfying things for me. I mean different from each other.
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Post by monker on Jul 23, 2010 2:52:56 GMT
Yeah, James is still the most consistently satisfying author for me even if, in a sense, he is less ambitious than others. I'm a bit fixated with comparisons and parallels, I don't know why. It's Blackwood and Machen together, Benson and Burrage form a duo and then the three writers who started in the pulps and are better known for their SF - Bradbury, Leiber and Sturgeon - form a trio. I would very much appreciate it if you humoured me.  |
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 23, 2010 8:03:19 GMT
I think with James its the consistency of his world. It's very clearly delineated and its very smug, British, old school, academic, churchy and its very comfortable: Like an old fashioned expensive pair of slippers that some rich aunt bought you. Of course against the comfort is that creeping dread, almost as though anything outside of that world (including working class people who aren't stalwart gardeners, deferential train ticket collectors or obsequious tradesmen) is a threat, an unpleasant whiff. What is Karswell in Casting of the Runes - he's Crowley of course what is Crowley? New rich not old money, clever but too clever, full of ideas but most of them from the dodgy East, likes woman but not just to do his laundry or make his tea.
With Blackwood we have another self made man. A man who was not a cosy academic who belonged to the Golden Dawn, in short a threat to established order.
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Post by Johnlprobert on Jul 23, 2010 16:18:33 GMT
Max Hensig - The evil German doctor of the title is up for murdering his second wife with arsenic. Williams, reporter for the New York Vulture, is assigned to cover the case, suggesting in his articles that the doctor probably did it. When the German gets off he promises Williams that he 'vill meet him again'. That's the good bit of the story that takes up the first twenty pages. The following forty (!) detail in an immensely dragged out fashion Williams trying to avoid Dr Hensig's revenge. Finally they end up in a bar together and what follows reads a little as if Blackwood only ever got very very pissed once in his life and had a great experience from it as he talks repeatedly of 'the clarity that exists beyond mere drunkeness' and has his reporter keep drinking until he can reach the point where he is no longer drunk, recovers his lighning reflexes, and is able to defeat his tormentor before collapsing in a heap. The expected twist ending never comes and overall this one's a bit of a disappointment.
I don't think I'm going to read any more Blackwood. Three of the stories in this volume are superb (The Willows, The Wendigo and The Listener). A couple are pretty good (The Glamour of the Snow, The Other Wing, Secret Worship) but quite a few really weren't worth the bother. I normally would let that pass but this is meant to be a 'Best of' collection so unless anyone knows of any other Blackwood tales worth reading it's time to move onto someone else.
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Post by David A. Riley on Jul 23, 2010 17:10:00 GMT
I can understand that, John. I'm afraid when I look at any of Blackwood's stories I start off with a feeling of boredom even before I start reading. I've read too many utterly mind-numbing stuff by him in the past.
Not a feeling I get when faced with James or Machen.
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 23, 2010 18:29:06 GMT
Yeah, James is still the most consistently satisfying author for me even if, in a sense, he is less ambitious than others. MRJ is my favourite too - and maybe precisely because he was "less ambitious" (in that he was writing purely for entertainment, without any improving "message" or agenda). ...unless anyone knows of any other Blackwood tales worth reading... Sorry, can't help you there. My experience is similar - if anything, my list of Blackwood "essentials" would be even shorter than yours! For me, nothing else really came close to "The Willows" or "The Wendigo". |
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Post by jonathan122 on Jul 23, 2010 21:05:00 GMT
I don't think I'm going to read any more Blackwood. Three of the stories in this volume are superb (The Willows, The Wendigo and The Listener). A couple are pretty good (The Glamour of the Snow, The Other Wing, Secret Worship) but quite a few really weren't worth the bother. I normally would let that pass but this is meant to be a 'Best of' collection so unless anyone knows of any other Blackwood tales worth reading it's time to move onto someone else. I'm going to stand by my recommendation of "The Insanity of Jones" - for a start, it's relatively short, and the ending is pleasingly violent and amoral. In general, though, I'm still looking for a Blackwood tale to grab me in the same way that "The Willows" and "The Wendigo" did. (I haven't read "The Listener" yet, I'll have to track that one down!) |
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 23, 2010 21:19:05 GMT
I don't think I'm going to read any more Blackwood. Three of the stories in this volume are superb (The Willows, The Wendigo and The Listener). A couple are pretty good (The Glamour of the Snow, The Other Wing, Secret Worship) but quite a few really weren't worth the bother. I normally would let that pass but this is meant to be a 'Best of' collection so unless anyone knows of any other Blackwood tales worth reading it's time to move onto someone else. I'm going to stand by my recommendation of "The Insanity of Jones" - for a start, it's relatively short, and the ending is pleasingly violent and amoral. In general, though, I'm still looking for a Blackwood tale to grab me in the same way that "The Willows" and "The Wendigo" did. (I haven't read "The Listener" yet, I'll have to track that one down!) Much as I hate reading off a screen this story is probably just about worth taking up the habit. I quite enjoyed the middle section but not a classic. This link might save you rooting through books. www.yankeeclassic.com/miskatonic/library/stacks/literature/blackwood/stories/listener.htm |
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Post by marksamuels on Jul 23, 2010 22:58:37 GMT
Must admit: even Machen's shopping list would turn me on.
But then you all already knew that.
Mark S.
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Post by marksamuels on Jul 23, 2010 23:03:25 GMT
Sorry, I meant to add that there's a review by Machen of Blackwood's collection featuring "The Wendigo" in the last issue of the Friends of Arthur Machen newsletter, Machenalia. I would reprint it here, but I want you all to join us... so I won't  Mark S. www.machensoc.demon.co.uk/ |
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Post by Johnlprobert on Jul 24, 2010 7:39:42 GMT
I don't think I'm going to read any more Blackwood. Three of the stories in this volume are superb (The Willows, The Wendigo and The Listener). A couple are pretty good (The Glamour of the Snow, The Other Wing, Secret Worship) but quite a few really weren't worth the bother. I normally would let that pass but this is meant to be a 'Best of' collection so unless anyone knows of any other Blackwood tales worth reading it's time to move onto someone else. I'm going to stand by my recommendation of "The Insanity of Jones" - for a start, it's relatively short, and the ending is pleasingly violent and amoral. In general, though, I'm still looking for a Blackwood tale to grab me in the same way that "The Willows" and "The Wendigo" did. (I haven't read "The Listener" yet, I'll have to track that one down!) Thanks Jonathan - I'll look out for it. I've a couple of Blackwood paperbacks on the shelf here including 'The Dance of Death & Other Stories' but it doesn't appear to be in any of those. Lady P & I had the 'Who would win in a fight - Machen or Blackwood?' discussion last night and while Machen came out on top as definitely the better writer, with greater consistency and more 'Great' stories to his credit, I suspect that in a real fight Blackwood would probably have used his amazing drinking powers that he seemed to think he possessed and just when he was at the point of becoming catatonic he would have leapt from his chair and let fly a series of blows that, alas would have ended up being delivered to the hatstand. |
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 26, 2010 19:15:08 GMT
Don't you believe there are energies in Nature (as symbolized by Pan) that our senses have become too numbed to take in and appreciate? I believe that if you spend enough time in a certain environment, whether in a city or out in the wilds, it will eventually transform you. No. And I am not sure that "energies" is a real word. Of course the environment impacts on the development of the individual - I don't know anyone who doesn't believe that. ...you are not really a horror fan at all. Then I will not press the issue further. |
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Post by Knygathin on Jul 26, 2010 19:44:40 GMT
That last bit can be both a blessing and a curse; anyway - have you read Machen's "N"? That may not be 'Panistic', exactly, but it has a distinct effect of its own that may be related. I have never heard of "N". I have read his most famous works, The Great God Pan, The Hill of Dreams, The Three Impostors, The White People, and a couple more. I love his majestic style. There is also Dunsany's The Blessing of Pan, which I have not read yet. For those interested in Blackwood's Nature stories besides his horror stories, there is the great collection Pan's Garden. Hidden supernatural forces in Nature and the expansion of the human mind, whether it leads to terror or exaltation, is Blackwood's main field of interest and expression, not his horror elements. And it's not merely entertainment either; he was serious. |
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Post by marksamuels on Jul 27, 2010 0:17:24 GMT
Tartarus probably still have copies of the special edition of Machen's "N" brought out for the reading Stewart Lee off the telly gave of it at Stoke Newington International Airport recently.
Bargain at only £4.95.
Mark S.
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