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Post by justin on Oct 15, 2012 11:11:34 GMT
I think it's great that John Norman has joined this site and is sharing his views on women writers.
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Post by Knygathin on Oct 15, 2012 11:24:49 GMT
Women are dull, practical minded, and in the end only concerned with what's useful. In other words, women think you are useless. Yes. Unless I sacrifice myself.
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Oct 15, 2012 11:27:33 GMT
I never read women writers. My impression has been that men simply have much richer imagination. Women are dull, practical minded, and in the end only concerned with what's useful. It may be my prejudice, but the books by women I tried, I didn't enjoy. But I'm getting better! Inspired to ghost stories by the discussions on this site, I have a couple I will read, who seem very intelligent; Vernon Lee: "Oke of Okehurst" Charlotte Perkins Gilman: "The Yellow Wallpaper" Wow, all I can say is that you’re missing out on a world of great writing and that I’m happy that you’re giving Lee and Gilman a try. I never thought about this, but you are right. The only modern memorable woman character in HPL is Asenath. Of course it must be atrributed to the times that Lovecraft never realized what a can of worms this story is - today it can be seen as much more horryfiying then in 30s. Right, when one realizes who “Asenath” really is. The wedding night must have been interesting. But aside from that there are no women in this fiction. On the other hand, except as victims - or sexuals predators and vilianess - there are not a lot of women in other horror pulp stories either. The only heroine which comes to mind is the Spider´s sidekick. I think that’s the typical pattern, but there are exceptions if one digs. Maybe when life calms down for me a bit I’ll take a crack at compiling a list of my favorite women characters from pulp fiction. Fritz Leiber’s Conjure Wife is based on a sexist premise, but Tansy Naylor would be at the top of that list. Well, . . . aside from literature . . . men and women compensate each other. Biologically and psychologically. Women are pleasant to have for company, for example when cooking dinner, cleaning the house, or travelling. And if man drifts too far from reality with his spacey ideas, or if he slips in concentration and isn't emotionally present and not absolutely true to unspoken social laws, the woman will give him a painful lesson. That hasn’t been my experience, but maybe being married to a women’s studies professor has biased me. I think it's great that John Norman has joined this site and is sharing his views on women writers.
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Post by ramseycampbell on Oct 15, 2012 14:17:05 GMT
Isn't Lovecraft a writer of very typical male perspective? I didn't know women enjoy reading him. I am almost tempted to say that quiz show is a setup, and the questions memorized and rehearsed with the young woman, purely for visual entertainment. But I guess she is genuine. She must be a witch or other pagan of some sort. Why should she be? I wouldn't think Lovecraft's perspective is typically male.
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Post by ramseycampbell on Oct 15, 2012 14:22:36 GMT
Women are pleasant to have for company, for example when cooking dinner, cleaning the house... I'm glad to hear you perform those tasks.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Oct 15, 2012 14:57:51 GMT
Leaping, somewhat reluctantly, to knygathin's defence I've been foolish enough to say that I tend not to go for much women's fiction. I've also been stupid enough to use as a supporting argument a writer who turned out to be male just to rub in the point that these kind of generalisations are liable to go badly wrong and make one look pretty foolish. There is the whole thing about active and passive verbs. Instrumental language which is used more by men - in general. Probably there is a gender difference if you look at a wide range of writing but of course there are always women who'll turn out to defy the stereotype and vice versa. An illustration that one shouldn't be too quick to send the girls off to make tea and scones while you conquer the known world could well be Thanea Niveau. I've only read a few of her stories but they have all been fantastic and don't strike me as belonging to a gender but rather belonging to a genre - horror.
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Post by Knygathin on Oct 15, 2012 15:49:43 GMT
Women are pleasant to have for company, for example when cooking dinner, cleaning the house... I'm glad to hear you perform those tasks. Yes, I am very helpful in and around the house. Although people here may not believe so from the way I discuss, I am far from a male chauvinist. I'm quite the opposite. My experience has discovered that individuals, on the contrary, are often not the way they aggressively argue. For example, male feminists who orate about equality, not infrequently conceal hidden weaknesses of character, and abuse women in one way or another. What one says, and does, are not the same thing. Besides, I don't think anything of what I have said above strays from biological facts. Men and women are generally different in some ways. Although individual characteristics may compensate in one direction or the other. When I say women are "dull", it's only part of me speaking, a side of intellectual frustration at differences of interests, but it doesn't mean I dont' enjoy the social company of women nevertheless. When it comes to women writers, I have tried a few in the fantasy field, but found them visually too mellow. I know women can be good at psychology, but that's not primarily what I am interested in. I want the bizarre, the outré, color and form. If someone can show me a female visionary of equal level to Jack Vance or C. A. Smith, I will change my mind.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Oct 15, 2012 17:38:00 GMT
What one says, and does, are not the same thing. Oh, good! You had us worried there for a minute.
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Post by andydecker on Oct 15, 2012 18:00:32 GMT
I want the bizarre, the outré, color and form. If someone can show me a female visionary of equal level to Jack Vance or C. A. Smith, I will change my mind. Leigh Brackett C.L.Moore Nancy Collins and many more.
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Post by Knygathin on Oct 15, 2012 18:54:25 GMT
I want the bizarre, the outré, color and form. If someone can show me a female visionary of equal level to Jack Vance or C. A. Smith, I will change my mind. Leigh Brackett C.L.Moore Nancy Collins and many more. C. L. Moore was talented. Interesting person, and exception from the norm. I had The Best of C. L. Moore, but the stories, even if technically impressive, ultimately didn't satisfy, and I don't remember them. I think there still was the perspective of female needs colouring it. I enjoyed "Vintage Season", her collaboration with Henry Kuttner. I will look into Leigh Brackett and Nancy Collins. "Many more"? I strongly doubt it. Vance and Smith are the top of the crop.
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Post by Knygathin on Oct 15, 2012 18:55:51 GMT
What one says, and does, are not the same thing. Oh, good! You had us worried there for a minute. Thanks for your support. I needed that after being bombarded by everyone.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Oct 15, 2012 20:21:55 GMT
I reject the idea that Vance is a visionary. He is a genius at description but he doesn't really do visions. I can happily say this because he is one of my favourite authors. Ursula LeGuin is an excellent authoress.
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Post by Knygathin on Oct 15, 2012 20:34:12 GMT
I reject the idea that Vance is a visionary. He is a genius at description but he doesn't really do visions. I can happily say this because he is one of my favourite authors. Ursula LeGuin is an excellent authoress. You have a point there. I agree perhaps. I suppose it depends on what meaning one puts into "visionary". I don't know what other word to use for rich imagination. But he is likely not a visionary in the term of foreseeing the future. I tried Ursula LeGuin. Something about islands or "Earth Sea". I gave up after a few pages.
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Post by jamesdoig on Oct 15, 2012 22:32:15 GMT
I reject the idea that Vance is a visionary. He is a genius at description but he doesn't really do visions. I can happily say this because he is one of my favourite authors. I just discovered Vance earlier this year in the form of the Dying Earth omnibus in the MasterWorks series - those Cugel books were amongst the funniest things I've read, just brilliant.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Oct 16, 2012 5:28:26 GMT
I just discovered Vance earlier this year in the form of the Dying Earth omnibus in the MasterWorks series - those Cugel books were amongst the funniest things I've read, just brilliant. I've reread my entire Vance collection about five or six times and because his descriptive powers are so brilliant (and my memory so crap) it's endless laughs. I don't know if you've read 'Show Boat'? Hysterical stuff. On the other hand 'Emphyrio' is one of the best straight fantasy works I've ever read. (although technically its sf) It's possibly the only one where you sense any emotional involvement by Vance. I don't think Vance was a visionary at all; he's whimsy and humour but his observations on humanity and his ability to describe things, rank as genius. I can't think of an author who comes close to him on description.
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