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Post by skunsworth on Mar 22, 2010 18:13:13 GMT
Well, as to being more successful, I have no idea. I've had some nice feedback so far, so yes I'm happy with how it's going, but success is in the eye of the beholder isn't it? My benchmark for success, actually, was that I wanted an Ash Tree collection, and I have that now (or at least, will do on Friday), so by that sense I've already acheived the first of my goals - and awards aren't a goal for me.
As to having the ear of those inside, that also I don't know. Do I talk to them? Yep, but I talk to lots of people including people not in the BFS who's opinion is very similar towards awards as yours is. And if the implication is that I'm somehow parlaying that insider conversation into kudos or nominations, then no, sorry to disappoint you. If people like what I write and vote for it (or like me and vote for it for that reason) then great - I can't help being brilliant and popular, after all - but mostly I think people vote for stuff because they think that (of the stuff they've read) its their favourite. Does it mean anything? Well, no, not really. Is it fun? Yep.
S
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Post by marksamuels on Mar 22, 2010 18:53:16 GMT
I can't help being brilliant and popular, after all S Mark S.
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Post by The Lurker In The Shadows on Mar 22, 2010 20:41:03 GMT
Well, I'm quite chuffed with my nominations. I've no expectations of winning anything or even getting onto the shortlist, but it's a pleasant surprise to be where I am. And if it prompts even one person to consider buying the book, then that's a result in itself.
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Post by David A. Riley on Mar 22, 2010 21:11:33 GMT
Everyone, of course, should keep this in perspective.
To get on the longlist only requires one BFS member or one attendee of last year's Fantasycon to nominate something.
It always surprises me when people get excited about it. The time for that is when something goes through to the next stage.
With the HWA's Stoker's the longlist is never published, which is made up, believe me, of a great many works, most of which never get more than one vote.
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Post by carolinec on Mar 22, 2010 21:17:40 GMT
As to Vault, well .... If the board had been "'nominated", i'd have put it to a vote, but as it was the inoffensive Vault WordPress blog i hope no-one will mind that i've requested the BFS remove it from consideration. Eeek! Sorry - have I made a mistake? I didn't realise there were TWO Vaults? I think I must be getting confused in my old age. Anyway, my apologies if I raised false hopes (or false hackles? )
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Post by pulphack on Mar 22, 2010 21:25:25 GMT
heh heh heh... welcome to the darkside, mr samuels... dem and myself (amongst others) welcome you...
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Post by The Lurker In The Shadows on Mar 22, 2010 22:01:52 GMT
Everyone, of course, should keep this in perspective. To get on the longlist only requires one BFS member or one attendee of last year's Fantasycon to nominate something. It always surprises me when people get excited about it. The time for that is when something goes through to the next stage. With the HWA's Stoker's the longlist is never published, which is made up, believe me, of a great many works, most of which never get more than one vote. Yeah, the longlist is explained on the site. But it's still a pleasant thought to know at least one person liked something I wrote enough to nominate it.
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Post by allthingshorror on Mar 23, 2010 7:09:14 GMT
I think unless there is a radical overhaul in the way that several categories are judged (with a panel reading all shortlisted books and picking winners) - the BFS Awards will always be viewed with a raised eyebrow.
And as much as I am a limelight seeking, maniacal attention loving, fame hungry whore I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to ask my name to be removed from any list (if I were to be "lucky" enough) until such times the way it was judged was changed.
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Post by David A. Riley on Mar 23, 2010 8:53:09 GMT
I'm not sure whether a panel is the answer or not. After all, who would the panel be made up of - and who would choose them? And wouldn't there potentially be even more accusations of cronyism? I have nothing against the whole membership of the BFS having a vote in this. I just feel that it would be better if so many people didn't feel compelled to start pimping their stuff as soon as they got even one nomination for the longlist - which is, after all, all it takes to get on it. Of course, it's even worse with the Stokers, with pdfs of novels and collections being offered all round. Even, sometimes, free copies being sent in the post. (Which I don't mind - I'll sell them ) I can't get all excited about awards. They are okay - and a bit of fun - but no one seriously believes that any of them mean all that much at the end of the day. They're not a guarantee of quality. I nominated Reggie Oliver's new collection of stories from ex-occidente, Madder Mysteries, for the Stokers. Only one other person did, so it never made the grade. Yet I would swear on a Bible it was certainly better than most that garnered far more votes and got to the final list. It certainly deserved more than 2 votes. But I don't want to get too embroiled in this. No voting system for awards will ever please everyone.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Mar 23, 2010 10:43:13 GMT
It's a thorny question all round. To draw an analogy from the music business. I watched the German superstars competition (Deutschland sucht den Superstar) yesterday -This is a bit like the X Factor I presume (I've never seen it) - A singer gets up and sings a selection of different songs with a band over a period of time. These range from Abba covers to anthems, soul, pop - heavy metal. The singer is merely regurgitating like a parrot well worn and largely uninteresting themes.
Firstly, as a traditional musician I have absolutely no interest in the material. Many songs might be rather good pieces of commercial toss that you would jig around to drunk at your brother's wedding, many singers might be accomplished, but if I were to compare their efforts to a single piece of music or performance by say Phil Cunningham, Andy M. Stewart or Dick Guaghan they would not be in the frame. The songs are designed to appeal to as large a body of people as is possible. They are effectively, Mars Bars for a commercial, mainstream market. Therefore, if a story or publication falls into the category of mass appeal it is unlikely in my view to deserve an award except perhaps as a crafted object for a purpose - like an Ikea chair.as compared to a Chippendale chair This does not deny the skill of the craftsman. And of course you make things to sell to people and the more you sell the easier the rent.
On the other hand, there are some free Jazz musicians who are doubtless the most innovative exponents of musical talent beyond imagination. The kind of music they play is incomprehensible to me, though doubtless to the expert, it is full of subtlety and nuance. To my ears there would be no enjoyment in listening to this just as there would no enjoyment in reading a story full of large words, convoluted esoteric concepts and obscure allusions. The difference here is perhaps between Joyce's 'Portrait of an Artist' as compared to his 'Finnegans Wake'. The former a thing of masterful beauty, the latter a free Jazz solo. I wouldn't want to award a free Jazz musician anything except a sound proof room
We can add to this equation by introducing Iggy pop, Punk Rock in general, early David Bowie, Magazine and a host of other culty bands. This range descends towards Marc Bolan, Slade and pop art and the like and in literary terms gets down through Ballard to Ellison to Guy. N Smith or Tubb. There is something fundamentally appealing about speculative fiction, extremism, ridiculusisim, pulp, tackiness. Maybe they deserve awards for recognising the moment, for grabbing energy out of the air, for challenging things with inventive humour, for appealing to something indefinable.
Add the judging panel. The possibility of cronyism, lack of fairness or objectivity (and I am not making these as accusations towards the BFS awards because frankly I known nothing about them) and the point of giving an award becomes an exercise in futility.
However if you get an award it helps you sell your stuff and if someone offered me an award for anything I would take it immediately and boast about it because when it comes to paying the rent my principles are very questionable.
The whole thing is a little like the NME's top hundred bands. You look at the list and begin to chortle at some point before breaking out into outright condemnation and amazement when your favourite band doesn't get a mention. But if they put your band at number 1 you take the money and run.
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Post by Steve on Mar 23, 2010 19:24:58 GMT
I should say upfront that I know very little about the BFS, its membership and its workings and - based solely on our little run-in with certain of their number last year - am quite happy for things to remain that way. However, I can't help agreeing with this sentiment; it's still a pleasant thought to know at least one person liked something I wrote enough to nominate it. Quite so, and I think it's nice too that someone thought enough of Vault, in any of its myriad forms, to bother putting in a nomination. Especially so because there doesn't seem to be any sort of ulterior motive to it - no back-slapping, back-scratching, ego-massaging or any other sort of nonsense that sadly seems to be an inevitable part of these sort of things. Vault's well out of it but it was still a nice thought.
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Post by blackabyss on Mar 23, 2010 19:44:59 GMT
>>or performance by say Phil Cunningham, Andy M. Stewart or Dick Guaghan<<
Never thought I would see the magnificent Dick Gaughan mentioned on Vault of Evil.....goes to prove that all strands of human life are here.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Mar 23, 2010 19:57:25 GMT
Westlin Winds. one of the few songs where i thought an artist had negated the point of doing a song in any other different arrangement and almost negated the point of doing it at all.
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Post by cw67q on Mar 24, 2010 11:44:19 GMT
Westlin Winds. one of the few songs where i thought an artist had negated the point of doing a song in any other different arrangement and almost negated the point of doing it at all. I'm just as surprised as blackabyss to see Dick Gaughan come up here. The above quote is so spot on it couldn't be improved upon. Every time I hear the guitar opening to this recording the hairs on my neck stand up. Very few recordings do this to me, I usually prefer to hear music played in kitchens pubs etc than on plastic. Wonderful words too: Not vernal showers tae buddin' flowers, Not Autumn tae the farmer, Sae dear could be, as thou tae me, my fair, my lovely charmer. - chris
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Post by Dr Strange on Mar 24, 2010 11:46:00 GMT
as a traditional musician I have absolutely no interest in the material. Have you heard Richard Thompson's live rendition of "Oops! I Did It Again" (Britney Spears) on his "1000 Years of Popular Music"?
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