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Post by pulphack on Mar 8, 2017 8:03:01 GMT
Read this thread while trying to avoid starting work - somehow I've missed it before. Never seen the Thunderbirds 2004 film, and don't want to by the sound of it, but the stories about idiot Hollywood execs lead me to add two things. First, Harlan Ellison - I can't remember where I read him ranting about it, but he said once that when pitching for the movie they told him everything he came up with was 'too small', so he pitched a story where the Enterprise reaches the end of the universe and breaks through a wall where they meet God. There was no comeback to that, and he didn't get the gig... although they did something suspiciously similar two or three films down the line...
The other is a Stan Lee story that I've heard him tell a few times when asked why, in the 70's Hulk series, Bruce Banner's name was changed to David. Apparently he was told that it would have to be changed by a TV exec - when he asked why, seeing as it had been that way in the comics for at least 15 years, he was told it was because the exec in question considered Bruce a name that was 'too gay'...
I don't even know where to begin on how baffling the logic in that might be (if you could find any, that is).
Never let a producer get at a script. I had a lost-in-development-hell crime thriller about bent coppers and gang wars in 90's London which was in the hands of a US producer who returned it to me with his dialogue adjustments, which included a whole lot of what he thought was cockernee slang added. Apparently, if you call someone a 'poof' in the East End it means you think they're dead hard and it's a compliment... It took sometime to explain how wrong THAT one was, on SO many levels...
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Post by Michael Connolly on Mar 8, 2017 12:51:26 GMT
Read this thread while trying to avoid starting work - somehow I've missed it before. Never seen the Thunderbirds 2004 film, and don't want to by the sound of it, but the stories about idiot Hollywood execs lead me to add two things. First, Harlan Ellison - I can't remember where I read him ranting about it, but he said once that when pitching for the movie they told him everything he came up with was 'too small', so he pitched a story where the Enterprise reaches the end of the universe and breaks through a wall where they meet God. There was no comeback to that, and he didn't get the gig... although they did something suspiciously similar two or three films down the line... The other is a Stan Lee story that I've heard him tell a few times when asked why, in the 70's Hulk series, Bruce Banner's name was changed to David. Apparently he was told that it would have to be changed by a TV exec - when he asked why, seeing as it had been that way in the comics for at least 15 years, he was told it was because the exec in question considered Bruce a name that was 'too gay'... I don't even know where to begin on how baffling the logic in that might be (if you could find any, that is). Never let a producer get at a script. I had a lost-in-development-hell crime thriller about bent coppers and gang wars in 90's London which was in the hands of a US producer who returned it to me with his dialogue adjustments, which included a whole lot of what he thought was cockernee slang added. Apparently, if you call someone a 'poof' in the East End it means you think they're dead hard and it's a compliment... It took sometime to explain how wrong THAT one was, on SO many levels... I always assumed that David Banner was used because Bill Bixby already had the same initials as Bruce Banner. It could have sounded too corny. According to Den of Geek (and other sources) the Enterprise meeting God idea came from Gene Roddenberry. More interesting was Harlan Ellison's idea. After The God Thing was rejected, Paramount began looking elsewhere for story ideas. Among the various sci-fi writers approached to write a Star Trek story was Harlan Ellison, who came up with the idea that a race of alien reptiles was going back in time and fiddling with events in Earth's history, thus making people and even entire landmarks disappear in a puff of smoke. To combat this curious menace, Kirk reassembles his crew and heads into the past to discover who the reptile aliens are and why they're vandalising Earth's timeline. "I postulated an alien intelligence from a far galaxy where the snakes had become the dominant form," Ellison told Stephen King in the latter's book, Danse Macabre. "A snake creature who had come back to Earth in the Star Trek future had seen its ancestors wiped out, and who had gone back into the far past of Earth to set up distortions in the time-flow so the reptiles could beat the humans." Ellison's story "spanned all of time and space" - something that certainly fitted Paramount's brief. But a studio executive named Barry Trabulus had one small request. Trabulus liked Mayans a lot. Would Ellison write some Mayans into the movie? Ellison, never one to suffer fools gladly, stated in no uncertain terms that Trabulus' idea was a foolish one. "I'm a writer," Ellison thundered. "I don't know what the fuck you are!" And with that, Ellison stormed out of the office, never to return. More details on the unmade Star Trek films can be found here: www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-trek/253770/planet-of-the-titans-the-star-trek-movie-you-never-saw |
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Post by Michael Connolly on Mar 9, 2017 15:07:56 GMT
Read this thread while trying to avoid starting work - somehow I've missed it before. Never seen the Thunderbirds 2004 film, and don't want to by the sound of it, but the stories about idiot Hollywood execs lead me to add two things. First, Harlan Ellison - I can't remember where I read him ranting about it, but he said once that when pitching for the movie they told him everything he came up with was 'too small', so he pitched a story where the Enterprise reaches the end of the universe and breaks through a wall where they meet God. There was no comeback to that, and he didn't get the gig... although they did something suspiciously similar two or three films down the line... The other is a Stan Lee story that I've heard him tell a few times when asked why, in the 70's Hulk series, Bruce Banner's name was changed to David. Apparently he was told that it would have to be changed by a TV exec - when he asked why, seeing as it had been that way in the comics for at least 15 years, he was told it was because the exec in question considered Bruce a name that was 'too gay'... I don't even know where to begin on how baffling the logic in that might be (if you could find any, that is). Never let a producer get at a script. I had a lost-in-development-hell crime thriller about bent coppers and gang wars in 90's London which was in the hands of a US producer who returned it to me with his dialogue adjustments, which included a whole lot of what he thought was cockernee slang added. Apparently, if you call someone a 'poof' in the East End it means you think they're dead hard and it's a compliment... It took sometime to explain how wrong THAT one was, on SO many levels... I always assumed that David Banner was used because Bill Bixby already had the same initials as Bruce Banner. It could have sounded too corny. According to Den of Geek (and other sources) the Enterprise meeting God idea came from Gene Roddenberry. More interesting was Harlan Ellison's idea. After The God Thing was rejected, Paramount began looking elsewhere for story ideas. Among the various sci-fi writers approached to write a Star Trek story was Harlan Ellison, who came up with the idea that a race of alien reptiles was going back in time and fiddling with events in Earth's history, thus making people and even entire landmarks disappear in a puff of smoke. To combat this curious menace, Kirk reassembles his crew and heads into the past to discover who the reptile aliens are and why they're vandalising Earth's timeline. "I postulated an alien intelligence from a far galaxy where the snakes had become the dominant form," Ellison told Stephen King in the latter's book, Danse Macabre. "A snake creature who had come back to Earth in the Star Trek future had seen its ancestors wiped out, and who had gone back into the far past of Earth to set up distortions in the time-flow so the reptiles could beat the humans." Ellison's story "spanned all of time and space" - something that certainly fitted Paramount's brief. But a studio executive named Barry Trabulus had one small request. Trabulus liked Mayans a lot. Would Ellison write some Mayans into the movie? Ellison, never one to suffer fools gladly, stated in no uncertain terms that Trabulus' idea was a foolish one. "I'm a writer," Ellison thundered. "I don't know what the fuck you are!" And with that, Ellison stormed out of the office, never to return. More details on the unmade Star Trek films can be found here: www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-trek/253770/planet-of-the-titans-the-star-trek-movie-you-never-sawHas my use of the f-word shut the website down? |
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Post by helrunar on Mar 9, 2017 16:46:31 GMT
This thread reminds me of a story that I heard on Youtube. I think it was J. Michael Straczynski describing the time he had to pitch a screenplay to Jon Peters (a former Mr. Barbra Streisand). Apparently Mr. Peters cannot read, so at meetings the hapless writer is trapped having to literally act out the story while Peters interjects various "suggestions." It was very funny but sounded like a slow walk through hell to live through.
It's funny about the name Bruce--I heard a 1960s or 1970s drag queen routine recorded at a pub in London years ago in which the name Bruce was enunciated in a fashion that implied that anyone bearing the name must be gay. It was one of those jokes where you laughed then wondered why it was funny or just who on Earth came up with such a concept.
cheers, H.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Mar 9, 2017 18:28:43 GMT
Read this thread while trying to avoid starting work - somehow I've missed it before. Never seen the Thunderbirds 2004 film, and don't want to by the sound of it, but the stories about idiot Hollywood execs lead me to add two things. First, Harlan Ellison - I can't remember where I read him ranting about it, but he said once that when pitching for the movie they told him everything he came up with was 'too small', so he pitched a story where the Enterprise reaches the end of the universe and breaks through a wall where they meet God. There was no comeback to that, and he didn't get the gig... although they did something suspiciously similar two or three films down the line... The other is a Stan Lee story that I've heard him tell a few times when asked why, in the 70's Hulk series, Bruce Banner's name was changed to David. Apparently he was told that it would have to be changed by a TV exec - when he asked why, seeing as it had been that way in the comics for at least 15 years, he was told it was because the exec in question considered Bruce a name that was 'too gay'... I don't even know where to begin on how baffling the logic in that might be (if you could find any, that is). Never let a producer get at a script. I had a lost-in-development-hell crime thriller about bent coppers and gang wars in 90's London which was in the hands of a US producer who returned it to me with his dialogue adjustments, which included a whole lot of what he thought was cockernee slang added. Apparently, if you call someone a 'poof' in the East End it means you think they're dead hard and it's a compliment... It took sometime to explain how wrong THAT one was, on SO many levels... Made me laugh pulphack. There's a very good video lurking somewhere of the Red Dwarf scriptwriters working in the USA on the pilot for the series. They encounter similar mind sets (or lack of them). |
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Post by pulphack on Mar 10, 2017 6:04:28 GMT
Jon Peters, eh? Kevin Smith had some stories to tell about him as well - I think it was a Superman pitch meeting he had (it's in a talk that's on youtube somewhere but I'm not looking before 6am and another coffee) where he had to listen to Mr Peter's ideas about Superman and the fact that Peters and Smith could bond over being poor whites from the ghetto. Smith adds at this point that he was not poor as a kid, and was happily suburban, but y'know... Peters is the money man... so Kevin Smith became a ghetto boy for an hour listening to Peters' insane ramblings. And he still didn't get the gig! Basically, Jon Peters seems to have become a successful producer by luck and being Mr Streisand for a while (was he her hairdresser when they met?) rather than any innate sense... of anything, really...
As regards Bruce as a gay name thing - if it seems to be a British invention that it's gay as a figure of fun, then I lay the responsibility for this arising at the door of Private Eye and Monty Python. A 'Bruce' became a sort of byword in both for very macho Australians, which I suspect was in part due to Barry Humphries' influence on the former (there's an Aussie who hates the macho Aus jocks for you) and also because the likes of William Rushton were habitues of Earls Court, which not only was Aussie central for the ex-pat community in London in the 60's and early 70's (even in the late 70's and 80's when I was young, and knew people round there, you couldn't move for Australian ex-pats. Lively pubs, mind.), but was also a place where there was a strong gay community, apparently. I think that goes back to the '50's and may in part be related to the number of artists and actors who lived around there. Put the two back to back, and you have ex-public school lads like Rushton and Ingrams chortling at the juxtaposition. As for Python - the Aussie philosophers sketch was very big when I was a kid (at least where I went to school) and all the lecturers are called Bruce (as all Aussies were in the vernacular) and rule 1,2,3,4 etc seemed to be 'No poofters'.
Thinking about it, Private Eye in the 60's and '70's seemed to be obsessed by both 'poofters' and Australians...
Apologies to James if I now have him foaming at the mouth!
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Post by helrunar on Mar 10, 2017 15:20:38 GMT
That's a wonderful bit of bricolage along Memory Lane, Mr. Hack. Thanks! (I associate the words "hack" and especially "hackette" with Private Eye which I read at the home of my Brit expat friends while living in Taipei in the mid 1980s.)
Earl's Court was gay central (well, if I were speaking "to the clan" I'd just drop the other shoe and call it Fag Central but we do endeavor to be polite in public) back in the 1970s and fascinating to think that it might have been so even at the time of the 1950s. In 1960 one of my favorite authors Simon Raven (the heart of an unrepentant racist something-right-wingish-that-ain't-a-Tory but the pen of a psychedelically winged angel) wrote a pungent essay on varieties of male escorts in greater London. It makes for fascinating reading. Not your cup of tea I'm sure, merely noting the existence of this important ethnographic document. When I visited London in '95 there were still some gay bars in Earl's Court. I don't really drink (and that alone may get me chucked out of here, one of these days) but I walked around one evening and observed the crowds spilling out over the pavement--it was Summer.
You know it might have been Kevin Smith who told that John Peters story. I really don't remember. I remember Peters was obsessed with, if I recall at all correctly, the superhero having a big showdown with a giant spider. It wasn't used for the film under discussion but Peters had it shoehorned into a remake of the US Wild Wild West series that was so dreadful by all coherent account I still cringe whenever I need to speak of it.
Peters' career came to an abrupt end when he was successfully sued for sexual harassment by a female assistant sometime circa 2002. Of course now that a notorious pawer of female pundenda is the US Chief of State perhaps they're sending him telegrams that read Come back, little sheba, all is forgiven.
cheers, H.
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Post by franklinmarsh on Mar 10, 2017 18:04:12 GMT
As regards Bruce as a gay name thing - if it seems to be a British invention that it's gay as a figure of fun, then I lay the responsibility for this arising at the door of Private Eye and Monty Python. A 'Bruce' became a sort of byword in both for very macho Australians, which I suspect was in part due to Barry Humphries' influence on the former (there's an Aussie who hates the macho Aus jocks for you) and also because the likes of William Rushton were habitues of Earls Court, which not only was Aussie central for the ex-pat community in London in the 60's and early 70's (even in the late 70's and 80's when I was young, and knew people round there, you couldn't move for Australian ex-pats. Lively pubs, mind.), but was also a place where there was a strong gay community, apparently. I think that goes back to the '50's and may in part be related to the number of artists and actors who lived around there. Put the two back to back, and you have ex-public school lads like Rushton and Ingrams chortling at the juxtaposition. As for Python - the Aussie philosophers sketch was very big when I was a kid (at least where I went to school) and all the lecturers are called Bruce (as all Aussies were in the vernacular) and rule 1,2,3,4 etc seemed to be 'No poofters'. Thinking about it, Private Eye in the 60's and '70's seemed to be obsessed by both 'poofters' and Australians... Apologies to James if I now have him foaming at the mouth! I remember an interview in Punch circa 1973 (?) explaining that Barry Humphries detested the name 'Bruce' for Australians as Barry was much more popular. This interview was about the making of The Adventures Of Barry McKenzie starring Barry Crocker. The interviewee? Director Bruce Beresford. |
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Post by jamesdoig on Mar 10, 2017 20:30:09 GMT
Apologies to James if I now have him foaming at the mouth! I remember an interview in Punch circa 1973 (?) explaining that Barry Humphries detested the name 'Bruce' for Australians as Barry was much more popular. This interview was about the making of The Adventures Of Barry McKenzie starring Barry Crocker. The interviewee? Director Bruce Beresford. I'm not foaming anywhere to be honest - that analysis all sounds pretty accurate. It's been a long time since I've seen Barry McKenzie - the only thing I remember is someone telling him oysters are an aphrodisiac so he pours a tin of them down his pants. Along with Alvin Purple it's iconic 70s Australian comedy. My favourite was Aunty "I'll rip yer bloody arms off!" Jack, though I was a bit young to really appreciate it - Grahame Bond was a genius. |
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Post by helrunar on Mar 10, 2017 22:15:06 GMT
Unless I'm having another of my "moments," Grahame Bond fiercely ruled on this syndicated series called Beastmaster, circa 1999. He played a queeny sorcerer called the Ancient One and the dialogue was so fruity, it all could have been rolled up into a tartlet and stuffed in a vitrine at Harrod's.
Great clip! I'd heard of Aunty Jack but of course never saw any of it.
H.
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Post by mcannon on Mar 11, 2017 2:28:32 GMT
>> Jon Peters, eh? Kevin Smith had some stories to tell about him as well - I think it was a Superman pitch meeting he had (it's in a talk that's on youtube somewhere but I'm not looking before 6am and another coffee) where he had to listen to Mr Peter's ideas about Superman and the fact that Peters and Smith could bond over being poor whites from the ghetto. Smith adds at this point that he was not poor as a kid, and was happily suburban, but y'know... Peters is the money man... so Kevin Smith became a ghetto boy for an hour listening to Peters' insane ramblings. And he still didn't get the gig! Basically, Jon Peters seems to have become a successful producer by luck and being Mr Streisand for a while (was he her hairdresser when they met?) rather than any innate sense... of anything, really... As regards Bruce as a gay name thing - if it seems to be a British invention that it's gay as a figure of fun, then I lay the responsibility for this arising at the door of Private Eye and Monty Python. A 'Bruce' became a sort of byword in both for very macho Australians, which I suspect was in part due to Barry Humphries' influence on the former (there's an Aussie who hates the macho Aus jocks for you) and also because the likes of William Rushton were habitues of Earls Court, which not only was Aussie central for the ex-pat community in London in the 60's and early 70's (even in the late 70's and 80's when I was young, and knew people round there, you couldn't move for Australian ex-pats. Lively pubs, mind.), but was also a place where there was a strong gay community, apparently. I think that goes back to the '50's and may in part be related to the number of artists and actors who lived around there. Put the two back to back, and you have ex-public school lads like Rushton and Ingrams chortling at the juxtaposition. As for Python - the Aussie philosophers sketch was very big when I was a kid (at least where I went to school) and all the lecturers are called Bruce (as all Aussies were in the vernacular) and rule 1,2,3,4 etc seemed to be 'No poofters'. Thinking about it, Private Eye in the 60's and '70's seemed to be obsessed by both 'poofters' and Australians... Apologies to James if I now have him foaming at the mouth! >> I'm not James, but I am Australian, and I'm not foaming at the mouth either....... I'd always heard that "Bruce" as a name for a gay man somehow become common among American comedians by the early 1970s (eg, "Oh, there's Brucie!"), and thus became somewhat widespread. There's also a widespread theory that the British reference to Australians as "Bruce" was originally at least partially inspired by Stanley Melbourne Bruce, Australia's Prime Minister for much of the 1920s (and the first one to actually lose his own seat at a General Election, in 1929). Following his political career he was a diplomat, including a term as High Commissioner (Ambassador) to Britain, and ended up receiving a peerage. He's a most unlikely figure to have inspired the cliche of the loud, macho Aussie - he was an extremely patrician, "More British than the British" type - but as I said, that's the theory..... I can't really think of a horror link here other than that following his 1967 death, at Bruce's request his ashes were scattered from the air here in Canberra; which means that he's spent a lot more time in the national capital than most politicians...... Mark (horror and political history buff) |
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Post by pulphack on Mar 11, 2017 11:27:10 GMT
Terribly pleased my addled reminisence (spelt wrongly) about Bruce and Earls Court has sparked this off...
Mark, that's fascinating! I often wondered why Bruce was singled out as an Aussie name in particular, and that seems as plausible a theory as any.
James - Alvin Purple is a cracking little film, an nice turn from Ray Barrett (a favourite of mine) in there.
Franklin - Barry Humphries moaning about 'Bruce' to Bruce Beresford (who is the only Aussie Bruce I can actually think of off-hand!) is priceless - there's a great TV interview on one of the MacKenzie DVD's where an Aussie film critic who hates Humphries is destroyed by a very pissed Bazza who nearly falls off his bar stool citing f*rt gags in Chaucer.
Steve - I've never read that Raven piece, but as I like him and don't care where anyone puts anything as long as it doesn't frighten the children and horses, I think I'd enjoy it. (And do keep schtum about the not drinking - we have our reputation to think of).
To all of you - Auntie Jack is brilliant! I stumbled on it on youtube via a sidebar while looking at something else. It's inspired! He's wonderful and should be known and revered further afield...
Apologies for rushing this and possible incoherence - babysitting and chasing two Essex toddlers between sentences. I think they want to destroy this gaff! I hope Mrs PH gets home soon... while we still have four walls!
PS - so if it was actually American comics who decided Bruce was a gay name, then where did that come from??
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Post by andydecker on Mar 12, 2017 16:41:31 GMT
Jon Peters, eh? Kevin Smith had some stories to tell about him as well
A couple of years ago when I read comic news sites like Heidi McDonald's The Beat, Jon Peters – or somebody who usurped the name, you never know – logged in when Alan Moore was the topic and badmouthed him. It was dull and embarrassing.
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junkmonkey
Crab On The Rampage
Shhhhh! I'm Hiding....
Posts: 98
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Post by junkmonkey on Mar 21, 2017 0:06:54 GMT
jamesdoig, Thanks so much for that. I had never heard of Aunty Jack until your post. (I don't think many people in Britain have). My Number Two Daughter and I were in hysterics at the bits of the show we could find on Youtube:
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