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Post by David A. Riley on Jul 28, 2010 13:37:41 GMT
I must admit to not having read any of Kevin Logan's books. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid. I've always been more interested in fictitious occultism than the "real" thing. I've never even been able to read about Crowley all the way through from cover to cover, much less any books about (or against) the occult, Satanism, Black Magic, etc. When it comes to non-fiction I would much prefer to read a good history book with facts that are as damn near to facts as you can get.
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Post by dem on Jul 28, 2010 14:12:23 GMT
I've always been more interested in fictitious occultism than the "real" thing. Oh same here, and I'm not so sure there's that much to tell the fiction and "non-fiction" apart much of the time. Have got a real love-hate thing going with The N*ws Of The W*r*d in that I deplore their tactics but lap up every last sordid morsel of their lurid exposes' of "Satanists" (strictly Toytown chapter). Rev Kev Logan attempts something worthier, but if he only but knew it, at least one of the sources he relies upon in Satanism & The Occult is so tainted that he parrots a deliberate misrepresentation at least as scurrilous as the 'Screws gang at their unlovely worst. |
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 28, 2010 14:22:45 GMT
I've always been more interested in fictitious occultism than the "real" thing. I've never even been able to read about Crowley all the way through from cover to cover, much less any books about (or against) the occult, Satanism, Black Magic, etc. When it comes to non-fiction I would much prefer to read a good history book with facts that are as damn near to facts as you can get. Actually, there's quite a lot of really good historical work on "occult" themes - I mean proper academic studies of the part played by occult beliefs in cultural history. The all-time classic is Keith Thomas' "Religion & The Decline Of Magic", which covers England in the 16th & 17th centuries (and is very thoroughly researched - you know, tons of footnotes). But if you want to read something that puts Crowley et al in their proper cultural context, then I would whole-heartedly recommend "The Place of Enchantment: British Occultism & The Culture of the Modern" by Alex Owen (or, if you want something a bit less "academic" then "The Occult Tradition" by David Katz is very readable). |
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Post by dem on Jul 28, 2010 14:43:42 GMT
Thanks for the recommendations, Dr. Strange. No idea where it stands in the great scheme of Occult non-fiction, but the aforementioned Gareth Medway title, Lure Of The Sinister, is his attempt to trace the history of 'Satanism'. Academic for sure, but not so much that it's likely to send the reader to sleep. Given that the author is (or was) a Pagan, I found it remarkably even-handed though suspect the Evangelical Alliance would likely dismiss it as a whitewash.
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 28, 2010 14:53:05 GMT
A good one to just dip in and out of is "Dark Muse: The Dedalus Book of the Occult" by Gary Lachman (one-time Blondie bassist). He even gives some page space to Machen, Blackwood, et al. And his "Turn Off Your Mind" about "the dark side of the 1960s" (Manson, Lavey, etc.) is good for a few laughs too...
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Post by H_P_Saucecraft on Jul 28, 2010 17:58:49 GMT
I did start reading a biography of Crowley some years back, written by his son Armado, not sure why I stopped, quite good reading. It was from the library, one of a trilogy, but I can't remember the title. No luck in finding it now, as my library seems to have scrapped the occult section years ago (along with the other heinous crime of filling the Horror section with mostly all Vampire/Paranormal Romance, FFS it's not horror). Suster sounds an interesting Character, Mark, do you know if he had a view on LaVey? I did read LaVey's Satanic Bible, which comes across to me as Atheism crossed with hedonism. Not sure I would have got on with Suster, though, as personally though I've got an interest in Occult, etc. (don't practise any of it), I don't really believe it does anything. As for curses, I tend to be of the belief they are self fulfilling - meaning they work off the cursee's fear & paranoia. Thus (just as an example) if the cursee were to get run over as a result of their pre-occupation with the curse & inatentiveness, someone else might interpret it as the curse working, when really it's just the cursee bringing about their own death. Just remembered, I haven't read The Scar yet, I really should get on with some of these Hamlyns, can't have Dem taking the crown  . |
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jul 28, 2010 18:30:39 GMT
I've confessed before to reading a lot of Crowley - only the sort of main stream published works - not the vast arcane output. Interesting fellow but not someone I would have rushed to befriend.
My encounters with the people from that strange land near or around the dark side occurred when I was thirty. I reasoned that in order to practise magick you would have to be some kind of moral giant or would doubtless end up like some of the unlucky chaps you read about in the tales on the vault. To paraphrase Nietzsche 'be careful when you like into the abyss or the abyss might look into you.'
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Post by dem on Jul 28, 2010 18:56:27 GMT
Just remembered, I haven't read The Scar yet, I really should get on with some of these Hamlyns, can't have Dem taking the crown . Relax Dave, you're still the Hamlyn man.  Have a couple of 'em on the go just now. Fair belting through Gary Brander's Hell Born, spluttering with Margaret Tabor's The Understudy which is probably the better novel of the two but not the better Hamlyn if you get my drift? Theatre setting, an actress burnt on-stage a century ago and all the signs suggest history is about to repeat itself. The aged tramps are terrific, but Maddy, the impossibly timid ingénue who finds herself the unwitting catalyst, is so irritating I can only bear twenty or so pages at a time. Something dead unpleasant just happened in Hell Born, and out of nowhere, really, so will stick with that for the time being. You're in for a treat with The Scar! Something I've noticed with Suster's novels. He seems to have had a genuine appreciation of punk, like he maybe saw something of himself in the circus surrounding the Sex Pistols in the Grundy-Jubilee months. |
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Post by andydecker on Jul 28, 2010 18:58:24 GMT
He was also a porno specialist and co-wrote, with Michaela, several books for the Black Pearl imprint (I think that was the name of it). One time I was in a remainder bookshop with Roger Dobson and he showed me some of Gerald's efforts on the shelf. Can't remember what his pseudonym was, though if I saw a list I might recall. Anyway, I do remember that one featured Machen attending a debased Victorian orgy. Oh boy, this sounds like a book I would love,love to read  Which Suster to begin with? The Devil´s Maze? |
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Post by andydecker on Jul 28, 2010 19:06:07 GMT
I did start reading a biography of Crowley some years back, written by his son Armado, not sure why I stopped, I know what you mean. Have this big Crowley bio somewhere, never could get into it. I didn´t had that much problems with Antonia Frasers Cromwell bio, which sure was hard work. |
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Post by dem on Jul 28, 2010 19:45:24 GMT
He was also a porno specialist and co-wrote, with Michaela, several books for the Black Pearl imprint (I think that was the name of it). One time I was in a remainder bookshop with Roger Dobson and he showed me some of Gerald's efforts on the shelf. Can't remember what his pseudonym was, though if I saw a list I might recall. Anyway, I do remember that one featured Machen attending a debased Victorian orgy. Oh boy, this sounds like a book I would love,love to read Which Suster to begin with? The Devil´s Maze? It doesn't mention Machen, but this looks as if it's one of our man's erotic works. Alan Dale - Sexploited (New English Library, (1998) Sexpolited is the brutally explicit devastatingly erotic novel that rips off the scanty veil of public morality to reveal the shocking reality of a lust-crazed decade.
The 1980s - a time made for the likes of Vic, a randy East Ender on the make. Seducing one girl after another as the money rolls in, he has never had it so good. Vic's ventures take him further and further afield, through high finance and low life, from boardrooms to porno studios. eBayHave not read The Devil's Maze, but the four I have were all such brilliant reads - would suggest you could start with whichever comes your way first. Can't really think of another author to compare him with - a clued-in Dennis Wheatley? - but if you like Brian McNaughton chances are you'll get along fine with Suster. |
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 29, 2010 8:42:38 GMT
I did start reading a biography of Crowley some years back, written by his son Armado, not sure why I stopped, quite good reading. I've read a few Crowley biographies (can't actually remember how many now as it was a long time ago - at least three anyway). The main problem is that most are written by disciples (or at least believers), and so they tend towards hagiography. He certainly had an interesting and (from a distance) entertaining life though. BTW it's highly unlikely that "Armado" really was Crowley's son - and Gerald Suster seems to have been one of the few "thelemists" to have seen right through Armado's dubious claims. I did read LaVey's Satanic Bible, which comes across to me as Atheism crossed with hedonism. That's pretty much it - plus a bit of dressing up and prancing about. |
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Post by Dr Strange on Jul 29, 2010 9:54:33 GMT
Suster is also credited (if that's the right word) with writing a series of "Memoirs of a Victorian Sex Magician", although they were published (by NEL) as "Anonymous". And that's where the "Black Pearl" reference comes in: it's not an imprint, it's the title of the series. Here's a short review of vol.1 - www.librarything.com/work/5315887And it seems some people (who probably should have known better) thought these were real "memoirs" - www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=5999Go to Page 2 of the above for cover blurb, foreword, and "editor's preface". Get the feeling someone was pretty pissed off at falling for this? |
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Post by andydecker on Jul 29, 2010 9:58:47 GMT
Sexpolited is the brutally explicit devastatingly erotic novel that rips off the scanty veil of public morality to reveal the shocking reality of a lust-crazed decade. Ah, another one. I could only two Dales on bookfinder or Amazon, not that I looked very hard. Vixens and Wolverine. Seems those books are hard to find or to get. But what about this? Black Pearl: v. 1: The Memoirs of a Victorian Sex Magician Seems there are five of those. Is this a series or just random novels? Edit: Lol, saw dr. strange´s post too late. thanks for the link! i've not read The Devil's Maze, but the four i have were all such brilliant reads i'd suggest you could start with whichever comes your way first. i can't really think of another author to compare him to - a clued-in Dennis Wheatley? - but if you like Brian McNaughton chances are you'll get along fine with Suster. Yes, I like McNaughton a lot. Thanks for the info! |
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Post by andydecker on Jul 29, 2010 10:02:38 GMT
I actually read a few Crowley biographies (can't actually remember how many now as it was a long time ago - at least three anyway). I browsed my shelves and found the one I never could get into. It is by John Symmonds and a translation, published by one of our esoteric publishers. The Great Beast. Seems to by Mayflower originally. |
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