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Post by mcannon on Feb 7, 2013 10:46:16 GMT
Demonik: >Short of taking in all 93 stories (it would have taken approx. 18 volumes!), it's a shame the Popular Library series didn't extend to at least another couple of paperbacks, mop up the best of the rest, if only because the guest introductions and afterwords are fascinating. >
I read somewhere - can't remember where, but I don't think it was just my fevered imagination - that there were originally plans for a further set of Popular Library reprints. However, the original six sold so far below expectations that further volumes never eventuated.
>Rather than opt for a box set, i've found it more fun to try and collect those stories Mr. Weinberg passed on via anthologies, magazine reprints and - at a push: it's far from my favourite format - pdfs. It's a project began in the late 'eighties, is unlikely to be completed this side of the grave, but those are the kind I like best. >
I think I got up to around 50 reprinted de Grandins in various collections and anthologies, and a handful more in scanned form, before I gave in and bought the 3 volume set. There are a couple of reprints in "Startling Mystery Stories" that are almost unobtainable, because the issues also contain Stephen King's first couple of published stories!
Of course, I half-expected my purchase to be followed by a flood of appearances of previously-unreprinted stories in budget anthologies, but that hasn't happened as yet.....
MarkC
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Post by justin on Feb 7, 2013 11:12:47 GMT
You are right on the reasons why the series folded.
I interviewed the series editor Robert Weinberg about all thing Weird Tales for issue 25 of The Paperback Fanatic (which will be a Weird Tales special) and his inside story of the de Grandins accompanies a cover gallery of the Popular Library editions (courtesy of Dem). The interview on the whole was dull and that's the only part that I'm using in the issue. I hear that his health has been bad, and I guess he was all talked out on Weird Tales. Shame.
But the presence of Vault stalwart Ramsey Campbell on matters related to Weird Tales and the debut of a promising young writer hiding behind the ludicrous pseudonym of Kev Demant on the Not At Night series more than compensates!
I've made an awful lot of great discoveries in pulp stories and authors I had previously overlooked whilst researching the issue, but Grandin and Quinn are not amongst those! Terrible, terrible stuff....
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Post by doug on Feb 7, 2013 11:34:16 GMT
I've never been all that impressed with most of Mr. Derleth's Mythos Stories and Post-humous "collabarations". Oddly enough, I did enjoy "The Lurker at the Threshold" though.
As far as his other tales are concerned, at his worst they were entertaining if some what pedestrian. Other stories though are simply brilliant as far as I'm concerned.Take a look at "The Lonesome Place" and "The Drifitng Snow". These are two stories that I've been continuously returning to for over 40 years now. And he was a wonderful anthologist! As far as I'm concerned, the horror anthologies he edited are some of the finest out there. I own every single on of them and also all his own story collections.
For good or bad, I view Mr. Derleth pretty much the way I view Lin Carter. They are/were two writers/editiors who I enjoy greatly and who have both gotten a bum rap from fans and critics alike. Both men's contributions to the genre are far greater than their writing alone and lots of people out there don't seem to want to recognize this. Which I feel is a great shame and grave injustice to both men.
take care. Doug
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Feb 7, 2013 12:59:51 GMT
For me, the non de-Grandins are another mixed bag. De Grandin considered the stories posthumously published by Mirage as Is The Devil A Gentleman his very best work, but the thrill-seeker in me is inclined to disagree. I have the Ash-Tree Press collection Night Creatures, which overlaps some with Is the Devil a Gentleman? You have a point—some of Quinn’s non-de Grandin work can be a bit low-key. On the other hand, there’s less predictability; unhappy endings can and do happen. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy the de Grandin stories; they’re like pulp horror snack food. I think you've put your finger on it there. Quite a few Lovecraft purists dislike his Mythos tales - particularly the "collaborations" - and unfortunately jump from there to condemning him out of hand as a hack. The fact that Derleth himself was so dismissive of a lot of his work - that comment about never having written a first-class supernatural tale - probably serves to reinforce this. Certainly, he wrote quite a bit of formulaic material, particularly early on, but even that is generally entertaining, and I certainly find stories like "The Lonesome Place", "Who Shall I say is Calling" or "A Room in a House" to be a lot more than just pastiche. Agreed. I believe that Derleth was at his worst when trying to channel Lovecraft and at his best when he was working more in the Mary Wilkins-Freeman vein. His strength is short, modest, and sharply observed stories. “The Lonesome Place” and “The Drifting Snow” (mentioned by Doug) are two of my favorite Derleth stories along with “Mrs. Manifold,” “The House in the Magnolias,” “A Wig for Miss Devore,” and “The Night Train to Lost Valley.” For good or bad, I view Mr. Derleth pretty much the way I view Lin Carter. They are/were two writers/editiors who I enjoy greatly and who have both gotten a bum rap from fans and critics alike. Both men's contributions to the genre are far greater than their writing alone and lots of people out there don't seem to want to recognize this. Which I feel is a great shame and grave injustice to both men. I've thought of that comparison myself, but the difference for me is that Derleth could write a decent tale whereas everything I've read by Carter has been dreadful.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Feb 7, 2013 13:47:53 GMT
everything I've read by Carter has been dreadful. I remember liking his "Burroughsian" stuff as a child. But I have always had an indiscriminate streak. And I am not sure I would enjoy them now.
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Post by David A. Riley on Feb 7, 2013 14:07:32 GMT
For good or bad, I view Mr. Derleth pretty much the way I view Lin Carter. They are/were two writers/editiors who I enjoy greatly and who have both gotten a bum rap from fans and critics alike. Both men's contributions to the genre are far greater than their writing alone and lots of people out there don't seem to want to recognize this. Which I feel is a great shame and grave injustice to both men. I've thought of that comparison myself, but the difference for me is that Derleth could write a decent tale whereas everything I've read by Carter has been dreadful. [/quote] I feel the same way about Carter. I admire him immensely as an editor - and he was responsible, especially when he was at Ballantine Books, for reviving a great many fantasy classics - but as a writer I have never read anything by him that I didn't consider awful.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Feb 7, 2013 14:21:10 GMT
I feel the same way about Carter. I admire him immensely as an editor - and he was responsible, especially when he was at Ballantine Books, for reviving a great many fantasy classics - but as a writer I have never read anything by him that I didn't consider awful. About summarizes my feelings - although in Carter's defense as an eleven year old I read his stories and seem to remember enjoying them - which might just be part of the deal. Against that as an adult(or something approximating one) I can pick up a Burroughs or Howard novel and still get the sense of reading a great storyteller. Pretty certain Carter wouldn't push the buttons. I see they've printed some more Thonger extracts and shorts by Carter
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Post by doug on Feb 8, 2013 5:43:32 GMT
C´mom folks! Cut poor Lin some slack! The man was a derivitive hack and openly admited it. He always stated that he wrote what he loved and he loved HPL, ERB, REH, CAS and Leigh Brackett. I still find, even at this stage in life, several of his series to be highly entertaining. Maybe I'm not the most discerning reader out there, but I still find his "World's End", "Mars" and "Zanthadon" series to be great bedtime reading. I'm not ashamed to admit it. Look at Thongor. What's not to like? It's such an awfuly twisted mash-up of John Carter and Conan that you just have to have a smile in disbelief even as you continue to read just so you can see what'll happen next. Seriously, I do find it a shame that Lin never managed to trancend himself like Derleth could at times. In me eyes, that's the biggest difference between the two. All that I can say is "Hail Lin & Auggie!" Bless'em both. Take care and enjoy the weekend. Doug
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Feb 8, 2013 20:09:13 GMT
Look at Thongor. What's not to like? Well, to begin with, the name "Thongor." I do give credit to Carter as an editor--I own all of the volumes of The Year's Best Fantasy that he edited, plus the first two Weird Tales revival books.
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Post by mcannon on Feb 9, 2013 2:43:20 GMT
>>C´mom folks! Cut poor Lin some slack! The man was a derivitive hack and openly admited it. He always stated that he wrote what he loved and he loved HPL, ERB, REH, CAS and Leigh Brackett.>> I find that a refreshingly honest attitude on Carter's part. I prefer it to the approach of Sprague de Camp, who seemed to consider that his editing & rewriting of Howard, and his additions to the Conan series, improved the original work and the character. He gave the impression that he felt his involvement was doing Howard a favour. Incidentally I've read comments by de Camp, written after Carter's death, that seemed pretty brusque, indicating that Carter was basically just a hired hand and that de Camp felt he did all the real work himself. No idea whether that was the true nature of their working relationship or if they'd had a falling out, or what. >I still find, even at this stage in life, several of his series to be highly entertaining. Maybe I'm not the most discerning reader out there, but I still find his "World's End", "Mars" and "Zanthadon" series to be great bedtime reading. I'm not ashamed to admit it. Look at Thongor. What's not to like? It's such an awfuly twisted mash-up of John Carter and Conan that you just have to have a smile in disbelief even as you continue to read just so you can see what'll happen next.> Other than his various collaborations and pastiches, I've not actually read much of Carter's fiction - probably just a few short stories. I do have a soft spot for him because of his "Lovecraft: A Look Behind the Cthulhu Mythos" book, though. I know that it's widely criticised, but it was the first lengthy work on the subject(s) that I ever read, and included a long list of stories and authors that I doggedly spent years tracking down! MarkC
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Feb 9, 2013 10:25:12 GMT
>>C´mom folks! Cut poor Lin some slack! The man was a derivitive hack and openly admited it. He always stated that he wrote what he loved and he loved HPL, ERB, REH, CAS and Leigh Brackett.>> I find that a refreshingly honest attitude on Carter's part. I prefer it to the approach of Sprague de Camp, who seemed to consider that his editing & rewriting of Howard, and his additions to the Conan series, improved the original work and the character. He gave the impression that he felt his involvement was doing Howard a favour. Incidentally I've read comments by de Camp, written after Carter's death, that seemed pretty brusque, indicating that Carter was basically just a hired hand and that de Camp felt he did all the real work himself. No idea whether that was the true nature of their working relationship or if they'd had a falling out, or what. >I still find, even at this stage in life, several of his series to be highly entertaining. Maybe I'm not the most discerning reader out there, but I still find his "World's End", "Mars" and "Zanthadon" series to be great bedtime reading. I'm not ashamed to admit it. Look at Thongor. What's not to like? It's such an awfuly twisted mash-up of John Carter and Conan that you just have to have a smile in disbelief even as you continue to read just so you can see what'll happen next.> Other than his various collaborations and pastiches, I've not actually read much of Carter's fiction - probably just a few short stories. I do have a soft spot for him because of his "Lovecraft: A Look Behind the Cthulhu Mythos" book, though. I know that it's widely criticised, but it was the first lengthy work on the subject(s) that I ever read, and included a long list of stories and authors that I doggedly spent years tracking down! MarkC I love the man to the bottom of my heart for his editorial work. In fact, I may well go on a Thonger search having read your post.
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Post by andydecker on Feb 9, 2013 12:02:16 GMT
I've never been all that impressed with most of Mr. Derleth's Mythos Stories and Post-humous "collabarations". Oddly enough, I did enjoy "The Lurker at the Threshold" though. Oddly enough I also like "The Lurker" much, at least up untill the last third where it becomes another Van Helsing and his friends sends Nyarlathotep back to hell. But the first parts are written very well, suspenseful and atmospheric. Of course it must help if you don't know stories like HPLs "Whisperer in Darkness" and other which in parts seem like a blueprint for this story. I just got one of Derleth's Solar Pons collections, and as far as Holmes pastiches go, they are quite well written. Better indeed than a lot of current material. If only the name weren't so mindnumbingly idiotic. It defies my suspense of disbelief, which is saying a lot. As the rest of his work, I am truly torn. I firmly believe that without his efforts HPL's work wouldn't have the standing it has today. He really worked endlessly to preserve his name. (Maybe another would have done the same later; I am sceptic, though. Remember what happened to a guy like Cornell Woollrich? He was forgotten, then had a short renaissance through the efforts of some collegues, now he more or less forgotten again.) But I find it hard to forgive him how he literally rewrote and dumbed down the Mythos and made it into something it never was. Lin Carter is a bit the same. He never had the condescending attitude of de Camp (of all things Howard) who coudn't even wrote a good Howard imitation. He was a great editor, who was at the right place at the right time. The influence of his work at Ballantine can't be rated hig enough. But his writing is such a blatant rip-off of Burroughs that it is a small wonder he never got sued. I have a soft spot for Thongor too. It is weird amalgam of Howard and Burroughs and kind of fun.
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Post by mcannon on Feb 10, 2013 0:51:49 GMT
>>I love the man to the bottom of my heart for his editorial work. [/quote]>>
Agreed - apart from anything else Carter deserves some sort of sainthood for his work on the Ballantine Adult Fantasy line.
MarkC
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Post by dem bones on Feb 20, 2013 16:25:23 GMT
Margaret Brundage Seabury Quinn - Suicide Chapel ( Weird Tales, June 1938). The impact of her fall must have been devastating. Beneath her crown of gold-blonde hair her skull vault had been mashed as though it were an eggshell; through the skin above her left eye showed a staring splinter of white bone where the shattered temporal had pierced the skin; just above the round neck of her velvet jacket thrust a jagged chisel-edge of white, remnant of a cervical vertebra. Already purple bruises of extravasated 'blood were forming on her face; her left leg thrust out awkwardly, almost perpendicularly to her body's axis, and where the loose-legged trouser had turned back we saw the Z-twist of a compound comminutive fracture.
"Is she—" began Costello, and de Grandin nodded as he rose. "Indubitably," he returned. "Dead like a herring.In 1922, Lelêtre, Cogswell, his wife Lysbeth, and Everton safari in Bokololand where they repay the hospitality of the Shamboko tribe by looting their JuJu hut of its gold and diamonds. Hunted down with the minimum of fuss, the Chief Shamboko patiently explains that his God will be appeased by just the one human sacrifice, so when they've decided which of them is to be flayed, honey-coated and staked out for the ants to devour, the rest can be on their way. They can keep the treasure as it's already tainted. Lysbeth suggests they toss for it. She keeps a double-headed coin handy for just this kind of situation. Everton doesn't know and shouts "tails!" He's dragged off screaming to his fate. But the Shamboko reckon without his pet gorilla, as indeed do his "friends." Lysbeth is made off with by the great ape to die a horrible, protracted death, LeLetre and Cogswell return home to repent their treachery. Cut to 1938. It's been a fortnight since Margaret Cogswell vanished from the exclusive Shelton finishing school, and now a second débutante, Emerine Lelêtre, has pulled the same stunt. Just a whiff of the musk-scented letters received by both girls shortly prior to their abduction, and it's clear to de Grandin that, not only did this Everton character survive his ordeal, but he's returned to Harrisonville to make good his promise of destroying all that his unfriends hold dearest. Tragically, the Phantom Fighter cannot prevent the murder of Emerine's roommate, Miss Henrietta Sidlo, whose page-boy hairdo and "generously swelling breasts" will cause multiple pile-ups on the motorway no more. But where does the ruin in the woods known locally as "the Suicide Chapel" tie into all this, and how did it come by such a name? This is one of my very favourite non-supernatural de Grandins with lashings of torture, sadism and general unseemliness. Peter Haining revived the novella for The Fantastic Pulps, and it would have been an equally good fit for Michel Parry's Rivals Of King Kong. You can tell Quinn is enjoying himself - I think 'Cogswell' briefly becomes 'Conroy' in all the excitement - and the thing moves along at a cracking pace. Much as I like some of the later adventures, I don't think he ever quite recaptured the sparkle of the pre-WWII stories.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Mar 6, 2013 14:36:49 GMT
Looked at Lin Carter on wikipedia. I realised owed him a debt I didn't realise quite how much. The ones in red I don't think I read. the rest were almost entirely down to his making them available.
1. The Hobbit, J. R. R. Tolkien (August 1965) 2. The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien (October 1965) 3. The Two Towers, J. R. R. Tolkien (October 1965) 4. The Return of the King, J. R. R. Tolkien (December 1965) 5. The Tolkien Reader, J. R. R. Tolkien (September 1966) 6. The Worm Ouroboros, E. R. Eddison (April 1967, later reprinted (5th) with colophon) 7. Mistress of Mistresses, E. R. Eddison (August 1967) 8. A Fish Dinner in Memison, E. R. Eddison (February 1968) 9. The Road Goes Ever On, J. R. R. Tolkien and Donald Swann (October 1968) 10. Titus Groan, Mervyn Peake (October 1968; later reprinted (5th) with colophon) 11. Gormenghast, Mervyn Peake (October 1968; later reprinted (5th) with colophon) 12. Titus Alone, Mervyn Peake (October 1968; later reprinted (4th & 5th) with colophon) 13. A Voyage to Arcturus, David Lindsay (November 1968; later reprinted (2nd & 3rd) with colophon) 14. The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle (February 1969, with "A Ballantine Adult Fantasy" on the cover; later reprinted with colophon) 15. A Fine and Private Place, Peter S. Beagle (February 1969, with "A Ballantine Adult Fantasy" on the cover of the first two printings) 16. Smith of Wootton Major and Farmer Giles of Ham, J. R. R. Tolkien (March 1969) 17. Tolkien: A Look Behind "The Lord of the Rings", Lin Carter (March 1969) 18. The Mezentian Gate, E. R. Eddison (April 1969, with "A Ballantine Adult Fantasy" on the cover) The series proper, May 1969 to April 1974 1. The Blue Star, Fletcher Pratt (May 1969) (#01602) 2. The King of Elfland's Daughter, Lord Dunsany (June 1969) (#01628) 3. The Wood Beyond the World, William Morris (July 1969) (#01652) 4. The Silver Stallion, James Branch Cabell (August 1969) (#01678) 5. Lilith, George MacDonald (September 1969) (#01711) 6. Dragons, Elves, and Heroes, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1969) (#01731) 7. The Young Magicians, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1969) (#01730) 8. Figures of Earth, James Branch Cabell (November 1969) (#01763) 9. The Sorcerer's Ship, Hannes Bok (December 1969) (#01795) 10. Land of Unreason, Fletcher Pratt and L. Sprague de Camp (January 1970) (#01814) 11. The High Place, James Branch Cabell (February 1970) (#01855-9) 12. Lud-in-the-Mist, Hope Mirrlees (March 1970) (#01880-X) 13. At the Edge of the World, Lord Dunsany (March 1970) (#01879-6) 14. Phantastes, George MacDonald (April 1970) (#01902-4) 15. The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, H. P. Lovecraft (May 1970) (#01923-7) 16. Zothique, Clark Ashton Smith (June 1970) (#01938-5) 17. The Shaving of Shagpat, George Meredith (July 1970) (#01958-X) 18. The Island of the Mighty, Evangeline Walton (July 1970) (#01959-8) 19. Deryni Rising, Katherine Kurtz (August 1970) (#01981-4) 20. The Well at the World's End, Vol. 1, William Morris (August 1970) (#01982-2) 21. The Well at the World's End, Vol. 2, William Morris (September 1970) (#02015-4) 22. Golden Cities, Far, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1970) (#02045-6) 23. Beyond the Golden Stair, Hannes Bok (November 1970) (#02093-6) 24. The Broken Sword, Poul Anderson (January 1971) (#02107-X) 25. The Boats of the "Glen Carrig", William Hope Hodgson (February 1971) (#02145-2) 26. The Doom that Came to Sarnath and Other Stories, H. P. Lovecraft (February 1971) (#02146) 27. Something About Eve, James Branch Cabell (March 1971) (#02067-7) 28. Red Moon and Black Mountain, Joy Chant (March 1971) (#02178-9) 29. Hyperborea, Clark Ashton Smith (April 1971) (#02206-8) 30. Don Rodriguez: Chronicles of Shadow Valley, Lord Dunsany (May 1971) (#02244-0) 31. Vathek, William Beckford (June 1971) (#02279-3) 32. The Man Who Was Thursday, G. K. Chesterton (July 1971) (#02305-6) 33. The Children of Llyr, Evangeline Walton (August 1971) (#02332-3) 34. The Cream of the Jest, James Branch Cabell (September 1971) (#02364-1) 35. New Worlds for Old, Lin Carter, ed. (September 1971) (#02365-X) 36. The Spawn of Cthulhu, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1971) (#02394-3) 37. Double Phoenix, Edmund Cooper and Roger Lancelyn Green (November 1971) (#02420-6) 38. The Water of the Wondrous Isles, William Morris (November 1971) (#02421-4) 39. Khaled, F. Marion Crawford (December 1971) (#02446-X) 40. The World's Desire, H. Rider Haggard and Andrew Lang (January 1972) (#02467-2) 41. Xiccarph, Clark Ashton Smith (February 1972) (#02501-6) 42. The Lost Continent, C. J. Cutcliffe Hyne (February 1972) (#02502-4) 43. Discoveries in Fantasy, Lin Carter, ed. (March 1972) (#02546-6) 44. Domnei: A Comedy of Woman-Worship, James Branch Cabell (March 1972) (#02545-8) 45. Kai Lung's Golden Hours, Ernest Bramah (April 1972) (#02574-1) 46. Deryni Checkmate, Katherine Kurtz (May 1972) (#02598-9) 47. Beyond the Fields We Know, Lord Dunsany (May 1972) (#02599-7) 48. The Three Impostors, Arthur Machen (June 1972) (#02643-8) 49. The Night Land, Vol. 1, William Hope Hodgson (July 1972) (#02669-1) 50. The Night Land, Vol. 2, William Hope Hodgson (July 1972) (#02670-5) 51. The Song of Rhiannon, Evangeline Walton (August 1972) (#02773-6) 52. Great Short Novels of Adult Fantasy I, Lin Carter, ed. (September 1972) (#02789-2) 53. Evenor, George MacDonald (November 1972) (#02874) 54. Orlando Furioso: The Ring of Angelica, Volume 1, Ludovico Ariosto, translated by Richard Hodgens (January 1973) (#03057-5) 55. The Charwoman's Shadow, Lord Dunsany (February 1973) (#03085-0) 56. Great Short Novels of Adult Fantasy Volume II, Lin Carter, ed. (March 1973) (#03162-8) 57. The Sundering Flood, William Morris (May 1973) (#03261-6) 58. Imaginary Worlds: the Art of Fantasy, Lin Carter (June 1973) (#03309-4) 59. Poseidonis, Clark Ashton Smith (July 1973) (#03353-1) 60. Excalibur, Sanders Anne Laubenthal (August 1973) (#23416-2) 61. High Deryni, Katherine Kurtz (September 1973) (#23485-5) 62. Hrolf Kraki's Saga, Poul Anderson (October 1973) (#23562-2) 63. The People of the Mist, H. Rider Haggard (December 1973) (#23660-2) 64. Kai Lung Unrolls His Mat, Ernest Bramah (February 1974) (#023787-0) 65. Over the Hills and Far Away, Lord Dunsany (April 1974) (#02
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