Dr. Who

[ripper]

Thanks very much, Valdemar. I'm a complete newbie when it comes to the novels that didn't begin life as a DW serial, so your suggestions are much appreciated :-).

Your reference to Quatermass reminded me of something I read on the Wikipedia page for Ian Marter. Apparently, he wrote a film script for a plot that involved the Doctor coming up against "Scratchman," which is an old name for the Devil. Sadly, of course, nothing came of it, but I wondered if it would have been the actual Devil or something that was more akin to the "Devil" in Quatermass and the Pit.

[jamesdoig]

Mar 13, 2013 19:49:15 GMT ripper said:

Apparently, he wrote a film script for a plot that involved the Doctor coming up against "Scratchman," which is an old name for the Devil. Sadly, of course, nothing came of it, but I wondered if it would have been the actual Devil or something that was more akin to the "Devil" in Quatermass and the Pit.

That sounds like it would have been a cracker, ending up on a giant pinball machine:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unmade_Doctor_Who_serials_and_films#Doctor_Who_Meets_Scratchman

Talking of unmade scripts, I saw Ian Rankin (the guy who writes the Rebus books) in Canberra last year - he said he co-wrote a screenplay of James Hogg's Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner, but no one picked it up. That would have been worth seeing.

[Dr Strange]

Mar 13, 2013 20:31:42 GMT jamesdoig said:

Talking of unmade scripts, I saw Ian Rankin (the guy who writes the Rebus books) in Canberra last year - he said he co-wrote a screenplay of James Hogg's Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner, but no one picked it up. That would have been worth seeing.

Rankin wrote an intro to an edition of Sinner a while back where he talks a bit about how he would try to pitch it as a film. There's quite a long extract from it here - www.scotsman.com/news/justified-classic-the-private-memoirs-and-confessions-of-a-justified-sinner-1-1083999

There's actually a film version in the pipeline now - I don't think Ian Rankin is involved, but it's a Scottish production company (Rob Roy Films) and director (Gillies MacKinnon, probably best known for directing Regeneration).

[ripper]

I have always thought it a little curious that the Dr. Who series has not had more big-screen outings down the years. In the early to mid 1970s there were umpteen adaptations of television series shown in cinemas. Most were sitcoms, but there were dramas as well; yet none for the Doctor. I have not followed the cinema for over a decade now, so I don't know if there are any plans for a new cinema version, but given the popularity of the TV series since 2005 I would imagine that there would be an audience for such a venture.

[jamesdoig]

Mar 14, 2013 14:02:42 GMT Dr Strange said:

There's quite a long extract from it here - www.scotsman.com/news/justified-classic-the-private-memoirs-and-confessions-of-a-justified-sinner-1-1083999

Thanks - great article. We was a brilliant speaker when I saw him - very funny - and a full on Scottish nationalist.

[ripper]

I read a couple of 4th doctor adventures over the weekend: Horror of Fang Rock and Talons of Weng-Chang, both by Terrance Dicks with Leela as companion. I couldn't remember much about the two stories from seeing them originally back in the 1970s, so reading the novels was almost like starting afresh. As the last books I read were 3rd doctor/Jo Grant adventures, the contrast was quite striking, particularly the differences between Jo and Leela. While Jo is rather an innocent at times, Leela is far more suspicious and prone to taking violent action when needed. Horror of Fang Rock and Talons of Weng-Chang are both set in the late Victorian/early Edwardian periods, and it was amusing to see the reaction of contemporaries to Leela's behaviour and attitude, as she very often cut across what was expected of a young lady in that time period. For instance, at one point in Talons of Weng-Chang, Leela is given a buffet supper by Professor Lightfoot and instead of delicately carving small pieces of meat, she simply picks up the whole joint and bites into it, wiping her greasy hands on her dress. Taken aback, but ever the gallant, Lightfoot follows suit, not wishing to draw attention to what, given the period's sensibilities, is strange behaviour. Leela is also not exactly shy about undressing in front of strangers. She calmly shrugs out of a wet dress in front of one of the lighthouse keepers, to his evident embarrassment in Horror of Fang Rock, and in Talons of Weng-Chang she fights the main villain, Magnus Greel, dressed only in camisole and bloomers. I can't see Jo Grant or Liz Shaw doing that :-). By the way, Leela gives Greel a good pasting on two occasions in Talons of Weng-Chang. Horror of Fang Rock surprised me by its very high body count, given the size of the cast of characters. I enjoyed both adventures, probably Talons of Weng-Chang being my favourite. Favourite scene? It has to be Leela knocking the stuffing out of Greel in her Victorian undies :-).

[valdemar]

It's the 'Buffy' effect - the sheer pleasure of seeing big bad guys being leathered by a tiny slip of a girl. Or is that just me? Louise Jameson, who played Leela was very slender, and yet had no qualms about her character knocking seven bells out of various opponents. I liked her a great deal.
PS. Louise Jameson was on the BBC2 quiz show 'Pointless' the other week: it was a 'Doctor Who' special. She still looks great.

[dem]

Mar 18, 2013 19:23:14 GMT ripper said:

I read a couple of 4th doctor adventures over the weekend: Horror of Fang Rock and Talons of Weng-Chang, both by Terrance Dicks with Leela as companion. I couldn't remember much about the two stories from seeing them originally back in the 1970s, so reading the novels was almost like starting afresh. As the last books I read were 3rd doctor/Jo Grant adventures, the contrast was quite striking, particularly the differences between Jo and Leela. While Jo is rather an innocent at times, Leela is far more suspicious and prone to taking violent action when needed. Horror of Fang Rock and Talons of Weng-Chang are both set in the late Victorian/early Edwardian periods, and it was amusing to see the reaction of contemporaries to Leela's behaviour and attitude, as she very often cut across what was expected of a young lady in that time period. For instance, at one point in Talons of Weng-Chang, Leela is given a buffet supper by Professor Lightfoot and instead of delicately carving small pieces of meat, she simply picks up the whole joint and bites into it, wiping her greasy hands on her dress. Taken aback, but ever the gallant, Lightfoot follows suit, not wishing to draw attention to what, given the period's sensibilities, is strange behaviour. Leela is also not exactly shy about undressing in front of strangers. She calmly shrugs out of a wet dress in front of one of the lighthouse keepers, to his evident embarrassment in Horror of Fang Rock, and in Talons of Weng-Chang she fights the main villain, Magnus Greel, dressed only in camisole and bloomers. I can't see Jo Grant or Liz Shaw doing that :-). By the way, Leela gives Greel a good pasting on two occasions in Talons of Weng-Chang. Horror of Fang Rock surprised me by its very high body count, given the size of the cast of characters. I enjoyed both adventures, probably Talons of Weng-Chang being my favourite. Favourite scene? It has to be Leela knocking the stuffing out of Greel in her Victorian undies :-).

Loved those reviews, Rip. You can't really go wrong with a leather girl, a lighthouse and a Victorian/ Edwardian setting, and these sound like they've a touch of the Don Glut's about them. That'll be Horror of Fang Rock and Talons of Weng-Chang straight to the top of my Dr. Who hit list, then. Terrance Dicks' Cry Vampire was a fixture in the local library for years, but can't remember for the life of me if I ever loaned it. Anyone read it?

[ripper]

It was great fun to read about Leela strutting her stuff and taking on Greel and his minions, and rather satisfying when she manages to give the villains a beating. She's very gung-ho and I'm sure that the Doctor has to rein her in a bit for her own good. If Jo Grant is the kind of girl your mom would like to see as your girlfriend, then Leela is definitely the kind of girl you would want by your side in a scrap :-). Another thing that struck me when reading the two books is how often Leela feels a knife-blade to test how keen it is. She takes a knife to Greel in Talons of Weng-Chang and comes close to slicing him up. In fact, I think that without a knife or other weapon Leela feels undressed.

Mr Sin, the homicidal ventriloquist's dummy in Talons of Weng-Chang is very creepy, and Leela manages to bury a carving knife in him, though as he's a kind of robot/animal hybrid (he has a pig's cortex), it doesn't do much damage. The ending is a little reminiscent of Corruption with the laser going haywire and blasting all and sundry, except here it's Mr Sin whose blood frenzy erupts at the controls of a laser and kills indiscriminately. I would like to have seen both Greel and Mr Sin feature in other adventures for the Doctor, though the ending suggests that to be unlikely, but with time travel you never know.

Both books are quick, easy reads and I think that you would like them, Dem. Oh, and there's a reference made in Horror of Fang Rock to the real-life disappearance of those 3 lighthouse keepers in 1900 or thereabouts.

[valdemar]

Ah yes, Mr Sin, the Peking Homunculus, created as a plaything, and ended up nearly starting World War Six. Robert Holmes at the height of his powers. He always seemed to start with a completely bonkers idea, and then run with it, tying up the loose ends and making an initially insane premise reasonable and indeed, possible. 'The Talons Of Weng-Chiang' is a work of genius. There are so many great elements in it: The Doctor, emptying his pockets on Litefoot's dinner table - one object that appears is a 'Corgi' Batmobile [in the New Adventure 'The Pit', the seventh doctor uses it to barter his way out of trouble]: "Why do you call him bent-face?" "Because he is." Superbly scary make-up on Greel, seen for a split-second: The wonderful pairing of a music-hall boss, and an eminent pathologist, each with names that go together like bread and butter: Jago and Litefoot. Why did the BBC not make a spin off? [they do have a great series of audio adventures, which are well worth getting hold of though]. By the way, several years back, a Magnus Greel action figure was released. It came with two heads, masked, and unmasked, and a lovely little figure of Mr Sin, complete with his nasty little knife. The detail on both figures is astonishingly good. A website also had downloadable scenery in scale with the Dr Who figures, and from the site I downloaded Greel's Zygma Cabinet. If memory serves, Mr Sin was played by Deep Roy, who was all the Oompa Loompas in the remake of 'Charlie And The Chocolate Factory'[nowhere near as good as the original].

[ripper]

Mr Sin is a device that you can easily imagine Sax Rohmer employing in one of his Fu Manchu novels to carry out clandestine assassinations.

Just reading the blurb of Talons of Weng-Chang made me pause and wonder if I was going to enjoy it, as the plot sounded pretty wild, but I am glad that I did read it; it was very absorbing and quickly hooked me, and as you say, all the elements come together very well.

I did think that Jago wasn't going to make it to the end of the book, but I am pleased that he did and has gone on to other adventures with Lightfoot. While watching various Dr Who serials, I often wondered what had happened to some of the characters that the Doctor met, and perhaps the BBC were a bit slow to realise the potential of spin-offs, though maybe budgetary considerations might have been a factor. I don't follow the new Dr Who series, but my son tells me that there is going to be a special 50th anniversary episode in which all the Doctors will feature, so I also hope that as many companions as possible will also be included. It's sad to note how many have passed away: the first 3 doctors, Elizabeth Sladen, Caroline John, Nicholas Courtney, Roger Delgardo...they all helped to put a thrill and often a scare into saturday tea-times in the 60s, 70s and 80s for children up and down the country and also for many adults.

I didn't know about the Greel and Sin models. Were any others from Talons of Weng-Chang also available, such as Leela in her victorian dress, or were the main character models more generic, with Leela in her trademark fur costume? I would imagine these models becoming very collectable over the years.

[valdemar]

Sadly not. There ARE Leela figures in the range - but not in the Victorian underpinnings The range is huge - I used to try and get each as it came out, but, like the runner in Zeno's tortoise paradox, I could never keep up. There's a lovely set of all eleven Doctors, pretty much every Dalek and Cyberman variant. Ice Warriors. The Master [Delgado]. Zygons. Sarah Jane Smith. Captain Jack. Weeping Angels. Several TARDISes, TARDIS Control rooms [I'm waiting for the lovely new one]. Pretty much any character you can think of - and some you can't! Annoyingly, the figures from the current series are easily available, and that's good, I like them. The figures from 'Classic' Doctor Who, however, are more expensive, and, although made by a British company, are usually only available as American imports. How the hell did that happen? The 'Classic' figures are the ones that I want, that mean the most to me. Having to pay well over the odds for the first three Doctors annoyed me no end [they are superb models, but that's not the point]. If you want a Leela [and what sane man wouldn't], I suggest you try Forbidden Planet [other etc. etc. click-click drone], and go for the 'Face Of Evil' one - she comes with her knife, a beautiful little crossbow, with a bolt for it, and a Tesh disruptor weapon. She'll set you back about sixteen quid. Yeah, ouch. Warning. Collecting these figures IS addictive. One Dalek never looks right... And Cybermen only look right in threes You see what I'm getting at here? Right.

[ripper]

It's a shame that Leela doesn't come in her victorian dress, but Leela in anything at all is fine with me :-). Like yourself, it is the classic era models that would mean most to me as well. Strange that the classic models are pricier and harder to obtain than the new ones. Perhaps the current ones sell much better as children and younger adults have grown up watching the 2005 to date series and don't have the same interest in the classic era that we more mature fans have. I know what you mean about collecting things like this becoming addictive :-). I remember that in the late 70s/early 80s the craze for collecting Star Wars models. It cooled down and around 1985 there was a shop near us that had a big wire basket crammed full of original Star Wars figures priced at 25p each and I have always regretted not scooping up as many as I could at the time. But I think I will have to get my hands on some of the Dr Who models, including, of course, Leela :-).

I seem to remember that there was a Tom Baker Dr Who action figure produced in the 1970s, along with a Tardis as well, though I don't know if Leela, Sarah-Jane etc were also available, nor if earlier incarnations of the Doctor were made in earlier years, when WH, PT and JP were starring on TV. I did have a toy dalek when I was a boy, around 1966 or so I would guess, but I can't remember if anything else was available then

[valdemar]

I think that you are referring to the small [but expensive] range of figures made by the UK company Denys Fisher, in partnership with the American MEGO company. The figures were slightly smaller than 'Action Man' figures, but fully articulated. The range comprised the following:[of which my old school-friend Mark had them all, and they all met terrible ends... ]

1] The Fourth Doctor. He is correctly attired in his grey trousers, white shirt, checked waistcoat, burgundy jacket, scarf and hat, with black shoes, and his Sonic Screwdriver. So far, so good. But looking at the head sculpt, you will notice that it is actually Mike Gambit, from 'The New Avengers', a range that was touted, sculpted, and then aborted. The heads were put to good [costcutting] use. It looks OK, but JUST OK.
2] Leela. She is dressed in the 'Face Of Evil' costume, has a big knife accessory, a not-very convincing face sculpt, and a mane of wild hair. She's slightly bustier than the 'real' Leela. Not great.
3] K9. Quite an accurate replica of the original prop, but looks out of scale, to my eyes. Has a Friction-drive motor.
4] The K-1 Robot from, unsurprisingly, the story: 'Robot'. This is a very nice model, with for some odd reason, detachable shoulders. These of course, got lost. I had this figure, and blew it to pieces with a home-made firework. As you do, when you're 13.
5] Cyberman. An odd amalgam of two distinct types of Cyberman: 1968's 'Invasion' type, and 1975's 'Revenge' type. In a silver bodysuit, with PVC piping on the arms and legs. It looks very odd, as if created by someone whose exposure to the Cybermen was minimal - the suit is shiny silver, the hands are encased in the sleeve ends, the boots, head and piping are grey, and the icing on the cake - it has been sculpted with a NOSE. My friend Mark removed it from his with a Stanley blade. Still looked shonky, though.
6] Dalek. In contrast to the comedy Telosian above, the Dalek is a thing of beauty. The classic livery of silver with blue sensor hemispheres. Unusually, the 'head' dome is red, but this makes it more attractive. The eye, arm and gun sticks are to the correct proportions. Repainted, it could easily have been used as a model prop in an SFX sequence. Almost impossible to find complete today. The only figure my friend Mark wouldn't swap, the bastard!
7] TARDIS A rather gimmicky toy, like a magic box. Open the door, insert a figure, close the door, press the button - the figure has gone! Shut the door, press the other button, open the door - the figure is back! How those long winter evenings must have flown by...

So there you have it. Doctor Who toys, but not as we know them [they were shite]. For the record,I think that the free card figures [two separate series] given away with Weetabix, were better, because ; they were free: ; they were more imaginitive, and [c] actually looked like the things they were based on. Oh, and you can use them as bookmarks.

[valdemar]

Why has the last line of my last post gone blue and in bold? i didn't apply any FX to this post. And I notice that my 'A' and 'B' points have been removed - just the indicators, not my thoughts, leaving 'C' sitting there on it's todd. I cannot amend this, for some reason. Technology! Pah! Where are Captain Swing and Ned Ludd when they're needed?