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Post by helrunar on Jun 27, 2017 21:35:52 GMT
That is cool about Carcosa Press. Wellman was known in fannish circles at that time (believe it or not, I was 15 in '73), but fandom was so much smaller and more intimate in those days. The idea of the boutique press editions of today that sell at hundreds of dollars would not have worked then. There was this one press I remember hearing about that did fine editions and they cost maybe around $50 or $60. That was beyond the reach of most fans then.
I did have the chance to borrow this book that Centipede Press did a few years ago on the Weird Tales circle because amazingly, not only does the library here have a copy, but it circulates. Probably someday it will go out and not come back.
H.
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Post by mcannon on Jun 28, 2017 4:24:59 GMT
I am living in Germany. Thanks for the tip, fortunatly I own the Dell paperback of Who fears the devil? I think some of my interest in Wellman and why I didn't dismiss him at once comes from the story of Karl Edward Wagner. Back in the stone-age when he founded his own publishing imprint Carcosa – which was a costly enterprise - he and David Drake started with Wellman. And I always wondered about this. Why start with a writer who at the time wasn't exactly known? Maybe even obscure? Both men liked his work, sure, still I guess this must have been a hard decision. In 1973 this was quite an undertaking. And if I remember correctly it wasn't a huge success. Carcosa did just four books. But this tale stayed with me. This kind of reverence for a writer you don't find often. Which reminds me - one of the things that fuelled my interest in Wellman's work was reading an extremely enthusiastic review of "Worse Things Waiting" - by, I think, Gahan Wilson - in an issue of "Fantasy & Science Fiction" some time around 1975. It only took me some 20 years to actually obtain a copy of the book, though by then I'd managed to read a reasonable number of the stories through other sources. Mark
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Jun 28, 2017 17:33:40 GMT
In the Wellman thread, I wrote: I'll admit that his stories aren't as overtly scary or horrifying as some of Leiber's. At times, they're almost laid-back. Then again, that's part of the appeal for me. Of the "John" stories, I'd particularly recommend "One Other," "Nine Yards of Other Cloth," and "Where Did She Wander" (the last of them he wrote, and the first that I read). Wellman, Drake, and Wagner all lived in Chapel Hill (sadly, Wellman died long before I moved there). If my memory is correct, Wellman was a friend and mentor to the other two. One minor complaint I've always had about Wellman's Shonokins: I don't think he ever wrote a story that fully exploited their potential. They always fold too easily. In response to a question on another thread, I'm not aware of any true Wellman pastiches. However, KEW wrote at least one Wellman-inspired story, ".220 Swift." As mcannon and Micheal Connolly previously mentioned, Drake also wrote a book of Wellman-styled tales collected in Old Nathan. I'm in the midst of trying to write a Wellman-influenced novel set in Appalachia, but it's not a pastiche. Maybe someday I'll finish and publish it.
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Post by ropardoe on Jun 28, 2017 18:17:46 GMT
In the Wellman thread, I wrote: I'll admit that his stories aren't as overtly scary or horrifying as some of Leiber's. At times, they're almost laid-back. Then again, that's part of the appeal for me. Of the "John" stories, I'd particularly recommend "One Other," "Nine Yards of Other Cloth," and "Where Did She Wander" (the last of them he wrote, and the first that I read). It's the John the Balladeer/Silver John stories, which I love: in fact, when I first read Who Fears the Devil, the stories and vignettes impacted on me every bit as much as my first reading of M.R. James stories. They are that special. In the latest Ghosts & Scholars, I have a little article on Wellman's tale "Chorazin", in which I say I think: "that the magic of the John the Ballad Singer stories is only repeated in Wellman's other tales when he sets them in the same Southern USA, Appalachian locations. It's the atmosphere and evocation of setting which makes these so brilliant, rather than the plots. In other tales, the fact that the plots can be threadbare and hackneyed tends to be more obvious". An unfortunate choice of some of Wellman's other stories might be why some people are less impressed by him. I'd add to your list of recommendations "Desrick on Yandro" which, for me, is Wellman's masterpiece (and perfect American folk horror, to boot!).
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Jun 28, 2017 20:12:34 GMT
I'd add to your list of recommendations "Desrick on Yandro" which, for me, is Wellman's masterpiece (and perfect American folk horror, to boot!). You're right. I forgot to include that one, which includes a host of fearsome critters such as the Flat and the Behinder.
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Post by Knygathin on Aug 27, 2017 6:48:55 GMT
By the earlier stories I mean the four collections encompassed within The First Book of Lankhmar (2001, with the appallingly bad cover): i.e. Swords and Deviltry, Swords Against Death, Swords in the Mist and Swords Against Wizardry. The Second Book of Lankhmar, with the later stories, I didn’t keep. ... I didn't get Swords Against Wizardry, dismissively thinking it was a later, less essential, "perfunctory" volume, because some of the material was completed by another; comparing it to the Conan volumes with stories completed by de Camp and others. But I didn't understand who Harry O. Fischer was, and how central he was in the creative process. I since have corrected my complete mistake, and acquired a copy of the slim little book (original Ace edition, of course!). H. P. Lovecraft, who briefly corresponded with Fischer, thought the man had an even more fertile imagination than Leiber, although not being as focused.
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Post by Knygathin on Dec 11, 2019 11:55:39 GMT
After my marathon read of all Robert E. Howard's Conan stories in The Complete Chronicles of Conan: Centenary Edition, I have now started reading Fritz Leiber's first five books of Fafhrd and the Grey Mauser (I read the second book earlier, Swords Against Death, and it's Grrreeeat!). (I think I'll skip book six and seven.) One thing I can say right away, is that these stories have a sense of humor that Conan lacks, and Leiber is also much better than Howard at describing sexy women. There is very little humor in the Conan stories; sure enough he laughs from time to time, but only from the immediate joy of living out his own well-deserved carnal pleasures after some strenuous fighting. He is so perfect and powerful, and efficient, that he doesn't need a sense of humor. (The sole function of humor, I think, is to be a mental relief from our own weaknesses, deficiencies and failures. And laughter works as a direct relief of bodily tension.) I am something of a strongman myself, but not THAT strong! It can be a little difficult to relate to Conan, but his mind and physique are very impressive and a joy to witness. Howard's imagination is rich, his prehistoric barbaric wisdom of human affairs is flawless, and his understanding of supernatural demonic forces full-fledged, even though he was merely a Texas rural farmboy in his 20s. Fortunately supernatural and weird tales don't need humor to be enjoyable. R. E. Howard and H. P. Lovecraft are good examples of that, I think. They had no sense of humor whatsoever. Well, that's a little harsh, ... maybe some, surely (most humans do, if not all, except possibly psychopaths), ... in their own reserved ways.
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Dec 11, 2019 20:00:30 GMT
After my marathon read of all Robert E. Howard's Conan stories in The Complete Chronicles of Conan: Centenary Edition, I have now started reading Fritz Leiber's first five books of Fafhrd and the Grey Mauser (I read the second book earlier, Swords Against Death, and it's Grrreeeat!). I read the Fafhrd/Gray Mouser stories a while back and enjoyed them quite a bit, though the later ones didn't work for me as well as the older ones. The stories I remember liking the best are "The Sunken Land," "Lean Times in Lankhmar" (the funniest in the series), "Bazaar of the Bizarre," "Stardock," and "Ill Met in Lankhmar."
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Post by andydecker on Dec 11, 2019 20:25:20 GMT
After my marathon read of all Robert E. Howard's Conan stories in The Complete Chronicles of Conan: Centenary Edition, I have now started reading Fritz Leiber's first five books of Fafhrd and the Grey Mauser (I read the second book earlier, Swords Against Death, and it's Grrreeeat!). I read the Fafhrd/Gray Mouser stories a while back and enjoyed them quite a bit, though the later ones didn't work for me as well as the older ones. The stories I remember liking the best are "The Sunken Land," "Lean Times in Lankhmar" (the funniest in the series), "Bazaar of the Bizarre," "Stardock," and "Ill Met in Lankhmar." I started a few times with Leiber. But I have my problems with him. I couldn't get into his later stories. Stories like the Fafhrd origin "The Snow Woman I thought deadly dull. But I still have a soft spot for "The Lords of Quarmall".
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Post by Knygathin on Dec 11, 2019 20:55:17 GMT
I think my favorite so far, is "The Jewels in the Forest".
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Post by Knygathin on Dec 11, 2019 21:13:55 GMT
Stories like the Fafhrd origin "The Snow Woman I thought deadly dull. But I still have a soft spot for "The Lords of Quarmall". I tried to read "The Snow Women" some years ago, and gave up on it, my impression the same as yours. But now that I have decided to read all the books, I am enjoying it much more. I have no expectations, and I like the descriptive little details and the humor in it. Fafhrd is first introduced here as young, and he is a quite impressive persona. It is a very odd tale, about women in white furs dominating their men up in the cold north. I like it, and the magic the women use to gain dominance is quite effectively symbolic for how dominating women can act in real life.
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Post by helrunar on Dec 11, 2019 21:21:39 GMT
I had a similar experience with the Snow Women story though it was only about a year between starting it and getting bogged down, and then going back and starting again and reading it right through.
The stories are a mixed bag for me now--a lot of them do not hold up that well, but I loved reading some of those tales as a teen (I never had the entire series). I found most or maybe all of the books at a sort of jumble sale sometime around five or six years ago. Fritz Leiber Jr was a personal friend of one of my teachers (she was living in there Bay Area then, as a teenager herself) so I feel a different kind of connection to the stories now.
H.
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Post by ropardoe on Dec 11, 2019 22:05:11 GMT
I had a similar experience with the Snow Women story though it was only about a year between starting it and getting bogged down, and then going back and starting again and reading it right through. The stories are a mixed bag for me now--a lot of them do not hold up that well, but I loved reading some of those tales as a teen (I never had the entire series). I found most or maybe all of the books at a sort of jumble sale sometime around five or six years ago. Fritz Leiber Jr was a personal friend of one of my teachers (she was living in there Bay Area then, as a teenager herself) so I feel a different kind of connection to the stories now. H. I love the early Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories and I agree with those who can't get on so well with the later ones. Leiber's uncomfortable attitude to near-jail-bait young ladies comes rather more to the fore in them. But "Bazaar of the Bizarre", which was the first ever Leiber story I read, remains a favourite - I must have read it a dozen times. And "Lean Times in Lankhmar" is brilliantly funny.
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Post by Knygathin on Dec 13, 2019 0:21:11 GMT
Fritz Leiber's foremost quality, I think, is his wit of observation. His passion and genuine emotional belief in magic, and generosity in sharing this. A very rare talent. Somewhat reminiscent of Jack Vance. But cleaner I would say, even greater in clarity. Descriptions sparkling like little diamonds and jewelry.
Although not in pace with present times of fast-moving digital action clips with visually bombastic nonsense. Like in the good old 1970s, one needs to slow down, calm down, sit back, and pleasurably reflect over the rich nuances, which are to be found on nearly every page; much more important, and rewarding, than restlessly waiting for a spectacular cavalcade of bloated action.
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Post by helrunar on Dec 15, 2019 17:13:25 GMT
A 1992 interview with Fritz Leiber--short but interesting. I love his sense of humor. www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUHrdLUqfcg&t=3s(In the Sixties and early Seventies, many of Fritz's younger friends became initiates and eventually teachers of Pagan Witchcraft, or other forms of occult practice that took off in counter-culture circles in the Bay Area, in those years.) I think I may have already posted this in the past, but I can't find that post, so I apologize if I am repeating myself (which seems to happen more and more frequently as I move into the "golden years"). H.
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