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Post by helrunar on Jun 29, 2022 4:32:19 GMT
Hi Andreas,
All points well taken. I enjoy "The Return of Hastur" as camp. (I don't think there exists a word in German that corresponds with "camp"--kitsch means something different.) In his introduction to The Mask of Cthulhu, Derleth claims that HPL did read the first few pages of the story and the outline for it and made suggestions. Clark Ashton Smith's comments and suggestions quoted in Price's introduction to "Return" would have been worth taking. But "Little Augie" ignored them all.
I'm enjoying the Blish story. Some TV series a few years back made use of The King in Yellow which excited a flurry of sudden interest in the book.
I think Derleth had more talent as a writer than did Lin Carter, but in some ways their positions in the history of weird fiction are similar. Both had more significant roles editing and republishing the material of far more talented authors, while churning out miles of their own material. Both still have fandoms that actively enjoy and circulate their work.
Time marches on. (Except in Lost Carcosa where, according to the Blish tale, it all comes to a long deadly halt.)
H.
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Post by andydecker on Jun 29, 2022 14:14:37 GMT
Hi Andreas, All points well taken. I enjoy "The Return of Hastur" as camp. (I don't think there exists a word in German that corresponds with "camp"--kitsch means something different.) In his introduction to The Mask of Cthulhu, Derleth claims that HPL did read the first few pages of the story and the outline for it and made suggestions. Clark Ashton Smith's comments and suggestions quoted in Price's introduction to "Return" would have been worth taking. But "Little Augie" ignored them all. Time marches on. (Except in Lost Carcosa where, according to the Blish tale, it all comes to a long deadly halt.) H. You are right. Camp is pretty much untranslatable. "Little Augie isn't much of a stargazer" as HPL has said - or words in that meaning, I would have to dig the correct quote out of Joshi - which makes him a better judge of character than many would think. I often wonder if he just didn't care or was so enamoured with his pennyless gentleman act that he did tolerate his school of pilot fish.
Personally I love the whole King in Yellow/Carcosa concept. There are a few contemporary anthologies about them on the market, and it is quite a good test which writer can do a bit more than the usual pastiche with it.
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Post by helrunar on Jun 29, 2022 14:56:52 GMT
That's a great quote from HPL about Derleth. My impression is that HPL was a very loyal friend if he became fond of a person. I can't recall if Lovecraft and Derleth ever met face to face, or simply corresponded.
It seems from reading the beautifully edited volume of HPL's correspondence with Smith that while Lovecraft refused to take a more businesslike attitude towards his own writing career, he was very acutely aware of the need for authors to sell their work and make a living. I would presume that whatever he wrote to Derleth about that Hastur yarn was couched with the pervading thought of "it'll be a good sale to W.T."
Finding these King in Yellow tales in Price's Hastur volume was an agreeable surprise. (He also included some material about Yuggoth, perhaps with the thought that it would be unlikely to fit in elsewhere.) If you know of any good pastiche anthologies building on the Chambers material, I'd be interested to hear about it.
Thanks, Steve
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Post by helrunar on Jun 29, 2022 14:58:13 GMT
By the way, it's close on to half a century since I last read it, but I recall the longer Chambers story "The Maker of Moons" as being very good. Maybe with a "Yellow Peril" element--I wish I could recall more, but whatever he wrote there struck me as quite well handled. Of course I was an alienated teen back when I read it.
Steve
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jun 29, 2022 15:29:02 GMT
I can't recall if Lovecraft and Derleth ever met face to face Face to face, I am not sure, but I believe I have seen a picture of them standing side by side. Edit: Now I am not so sure anymore, however.
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Post by andydecker on Jun 29, 2022 19:01:35 GMT
That's a great quote from HPL about Derleth. My impression is that HPL was a very loyal friend if he became fond of a person. I can't recall if Lovecraft and Derleth ever met face to face, or simply corresponded. It seems from reading the beautifully edited volume of HPL's correspondence with Smith that while Lovecraft refused to take a more businesslike attitude towards his own writing career, he was very acutely aware of the need for authors to sell their work and make a living. I would presume that whatever he wrote to Derleth about that Hastur yarn was couched with the pervading thought of "it'll be a good sale to W.T." Finding these King in Yellow tales in Price's Hastur volume was an agreeable surprise. (He also included some material about Yuggoth, perhaps with the thought that it would be unlikely to fit in elsewhere.) If you know of any good pastiche anthologies building on the Chambers material, I'd be interested to hear about it. Thanks, Steve There is one major anthology of (then) new fiction, which has a solid line-up. A Season in Carcosa is by Joseph S. Pulver Sr. 21 stories, some of them interesting. He did a second one: Cassilda's Song. I will put them up in threads these days, but I only have those as Kindle. There is also a story collection by Pulver called The King in Yellow. Never could get into it.
One of the most memorable KiY story I read is by Brian Keene, another writer I am not a fan of. His story is called The King, in: Yellow. I read it on The Mammoth Book of New Horror 16.
I used to think that Lovecraft's disinterest in profitable sales was just another myth of many. Considering the difficult times he lived in and his failure to earn money one would think he would have embraced the possibility. But it seems he really was not interested but liked it when his buddies made a sale.
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peedeel
Crab On The Rampage
Posts: 61
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Post by peedeel on Jun 30, 2022 7:17:08 GMT
I can't recall if Lovecraft and Derleth ever met face to face Face to face, I am not sure, but I believe I have seen a picture of them standing side by side. Edit: Now I am not so sure anymore, however. “Derleth began corresponding with H. P. Lovecraft in 1926 when he was 17, although the two men never met.” Above quote taken from J. S. Mackley, The Shadow over Derleth: Disseminating the Mythos in The Trail of Cthulhu (chapter seven) Included in David Simmons’ New Critical Essays on H.P. Lovecraft.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jun 30, 2022 9:03:07 GMT
Face to face, I am not sure, but I believe I have seen a picture of them standing side by side. Edit: Now I am not so sure anymore, however. “Derleth began corresponding with H. P. Lovecraft in 1926 when he was 17, although the two men never met.” Above quote taken from J. S. Mackley, The Shadow over Derleth: Disseminating the Mythos in The Trail of Cthulhu (chapter seven) Included in David Simmons’ New Critical Essays on H.P. Lovecraft. Nevertheless, I still feel I have seen such a photograph somewhere in the Arkham House SELECTED LETTERS.
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Post by ramseycampbell on Jun 30, 2022 10:20:38 GMT
Hi Andreas, All points well taken. I enjoy "The Return of Hastur" as camp. (I don't think there exists a word in German that corresponds with "camp"--kitsch means something different.) In his introduction to The Mask of Cthulhu, Derleth claims that HPL did read the first few pages of the story and the outline for it and made suggestions. Clark Ashton Smith's comments and suggestions quoted in Price's introduction to "Return" would have been worth taking. But "Little Augie" ignored them all. Time marches on. (Except in Lost Carcosa where, according to the Blish tale, it all comes to a long deadly halt.) H. You are right. Camp is pretty much untranslatable. "Little Augie isn't much of a stargazer" as HPL has said - or words in that meaning, I would have to dig the correct quote out of Joshi - which makes him a better judge of character than many would think. I often wonder if he just didn't care or was so enamoured with his pennyless gentleman act that he did tolerate his school of pilot fish. Personally I love the whole King in Yellow/Carcosa concept. There are a few contemporary anthologies about them on the market, and it is quite a good test which writer can do a bit more than the usual pastiche with it.
I think Lovecraft did far more than tolerate his literary correspondents - he encouraged and praised them whenever he could, enthusing about examples of their work to others than themselves. He described August as an earth-gazer, but admired his best work of the kind - "Evening in Spring", for instance. I feel he passed his willingness to support fellow writers, especially early in their careers, to Derleth, who passed it to me.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jun 30, 2022 12:04:20 GMT
I feel he passed his willingness to support fellow writers, especially early in their careers, to Derleth, who passed it to me. You never met Derleth either, right? Did he even exist?
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Post by ramseycampbell on Jul 2, 2022 12:48:35 GMT
I feel he passed his willingness to support fellow writers, especially early in their careers, to Derleth, who passed it to me. You never met Derleth either, right? Did he even exist? I rather think so.
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Post by helrunar on Jul 3, 2022 13:09:19 GMT
Interesting article about Derleth's "erasure" from the historical and present-day landscape of Sauk City: newterritorymag.com/literary-landscapes/august-derleth-sauk-city-wisconsinI happen to be visiting friends in Wisconsin this weekend (the circumstances would be too tediously complicated to go into) and we drove through Sauk City looking for the Augie Derleth statue, but couldn't find it. We went to the former Derleth Park which is now a kids recreational area, but right up the street is still the one-room August Derleth Center. It was closed, perhaps inevitably. My impression is that Derleth more or less worked himself to death. He died 51 years ago tomorrow--I think he dropped dead of a stroke or heart attack. H.
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Post by andydecker on Jul 3, 2022 13:36:05 GMT
Interesting article about Derleth's "erasure" from the historical and present-day landscape of Sauk City: newterritorymag.com/literary-landscapes/august-derleth-sauk-city-wisconsinI happen to be visiting friends in Wisconsin this weekend (the circumstances would be too tediously complicated to go into) and we drove through Sauk City looking for the Augie Derleth statue, but couldn't find it. We went to the former Derleth Park which is now a kids recreational area, but right up the street is still the one-room August Derleth Center. It was closed, perhaps inevitably. My impression is that Derleth more or less worked himself to death. He died 51 years ago tomorrow--I think he dropped dead of a stroke or heart attack. H. Interesting and kind of sad. General apathy, genuine disinterest or are the iconoclasts at it again?
Derleth was 62. Hm, even for his times this was not very old.
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Post by helrunar on Jul 5, 2022 2:45:46 GMT
We drove past the locked gates of Derleth's former home, "Place of Hawks," in Sauk City today. It's one of the very few Derleth traces left in the town. Because it is the US Independence Day holiday, the single-room "Derleth Center" was again closed.
Afterwards my friend and I explored a field of sacred ancient American effigy mounds near the shores of Mendota Lake, near Madison. The mounds were peaceful and serene places but I could imagine Derleth turning the outing into one of his exercises in Cthulhu camp.
H.
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Post by andydecker on Jul 5, 2022 7:34:39 GMT
We drove past the locked gates of Derleth's former home, "Place of Hawks," in Sauk City today. It's one of the very few Derleth traces left in the town. Because it is the US Independence Day holiday, the single-room "Derleth Center" was again closed. Afterwards my friend and I explored a field of sacred ancient American effigy mounds near the shores of Mendota Lake, near Madison. The mounds were peaceful and serene places but I could imagine Derleth turning the outing into one of his exercises in Cthulhu camp. H. Write about what you know?
I looked it up and it sounds like a rather small place. Few people and lots of open space.
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