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Post by ripper on Aug 4, 2015 16:39:55 GMT
I'm not sure about the music at the end of the documentary but I think that Mason did indeed talk to some tramps, and it is certainly a great piece of film-making, well worth seeing. It used to be on Youtube a few years ago in a multi-part format but seems to have been taken down now.
Agreed 100% about the regeneration of our towns and cities. Often they seem to throw the baby out with the bath water when they attempt to transform areas.
I think that report about the museum from the Pall Mall Gazette was included in one of the myriad JTR books...possibly one by Paul Begg but I'm not sure. I'm not surprised it caused a furore at the time. Imagine the reaction in Leeds circa 1979 if someone had opened something similar regarding the Yorkshire Ripper.
It would be interesting to gauge the reaction of all those foreign visitors after their JTR tours had ended to see what they had been expecting and if they had been surprised at the murder locations' appearances.
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Post by andydecker on Aug 4, 2015 18:55:35 GMT
Very interesting stuff, dem. Thanks. Seems to be a bit bold to go from "woman of the East End" to "JTR". How could this go wrong? For all the love for popculture stuff, to advertise with "See the autopsy report" seems a bit tasteless. No bloody clothes left?
Frankly I am surprised that there was no JTR Museum. Seems that he is mentioned every other week in either a crime show or a new anthology. And no one cashed in on this popularity? Weird.
I don't know if I would join such a Ripper tour as a tourist. Maybe I would be tempted, nut knowing that there isn't anything left from the era this seems a bit of a moneywaster.
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Post by ripper on Aug 4, 2015 19:19:16 GMT
'The London Nobody Knows' is based upon a guidebook of the same name by Geoffrey Fletcher. Also, the documentary is available on a DVD, paired with 'Les Bicyclettes de Belize' (I can't recall seeing that one).
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Post by dem bones on Aug 4, 2015 19:29:00 GMT
Very interesting stuff, dem. Thanks. Seems to be a bit bold to go from "woman of the East End" to "JTR". How could this go wrong? For all the love for popculture stuff, to advertise with "See the autopsy report" seems a bit tasteless. No bloody clothes left?
Frankly I am surprised that there was no JTR Museum. Seems that he is mentioned every other week in either a crime show or a new anthology. And no one cashed in on this popularity? Weird.
I don't know if I would join such a Ripper tour as a tourist. Maybe I would be tempted, nut knowing that there isn't anything left from the era this seems a bit of a moneywaster. Gloomy Sundae/ Vault Digital Library Perhaps I'm being harsh, because surely the guides must have varied their routes a little now the original sites have been good as obliterated. Bucks Row was still remarkably creepy as late as the mid-nineties, but then they renovated the Victorian board school, demolished The Roebuck pub, built a school, Sainsbury's etc. Even the version you see in series 1 of Whitechapel is no more. Tradition was (and probably still is) that the tours end with a visit to The Ten Bells (above) which is still reassuringly dingy, at least it is on the outside, pretty snug within.
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Post by valdemar on Aug 5, 2015 1:53:50 GMT
Is it me, or did the 'Jack The Ripper' pub change it's name because the serious drinkers were sick to the back teeth of the place being full of 'Rippereologists', their fans, and general weirdos? Whilst we're on the subject, why were there never any pubs called 'The Doctor Crippen'; 'The George Joseph Smith'; 'The John Reginald Christie'; 'The Acid Bath Murderer', eh? How come saucy Jack gets the preference? Imagine the conversation: "Fancy a drink?" "Yeah. Where do you want to meet?" "What about down the Dennis Nilsen, say eightish?" "Fine."
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Post by pulphack on Aug 5, 2015 5:09:08 GMT
I went on a Ripper tour at the end of the nineties with an American resident in London and her mum, who was visiting. It was dire: 'see that warehouse over there? Well under that there used to be...'etc etc. Plus, as Dem knows, we have a Ripper tour guide as a mutual and distant acquaintance, and the less said about him...
Anyway, The London Nobody Knows is always about the egg smashing for me, as that's just plain odd. Great film, though, and worth getting the DVD with Les Bicyclettes De Belsize, which is a bit fey and lounge music in its score and approach, but has enough fascinating film of Hampstead and its environs around that time to make it worth the admission. I would also recommend the BFI restorations of the old silent documentary reels Wonderful London which has 12x2reelers of old London footage - about £7 on Amazon and well worth it. Ignore the sickening booklet, though, where the composer of the new soundtrack gets wet about how the racism made him feel sick - so why did he complete the job, then? Ah, that'll be the cash - as there are some dodgy commentary slides to accompany the likes of old Limehouse; however, as any Vault vet knows, xenophobia and outmoded attitudes go with the territory and so you accept them for the context without agreeing with them or getting sanctimonious (which is I think what really angers me about the booklet - if these people really felt that strongly they wouldn't have cashed their cheques).
Meanwhile, back on track and for what it's worth I think the whole Ripper thing is because 'he' (or they, or she) was never caught and so remains an enigma. Sutcliffe, Nielsen etc were made real, and so what would seen distasteful in naming a pub after them gets overlooked as 'the Ripper' is a myth and can't be humanised; therefore we don't identify with these crimes in the same way.
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Post by dem bones on Aug 5, 2015 8:06:18 GMT
Is it me, or did the 'Jack The Ripper' pub change it's name because the serious drinkers were sick to the back teeth of the place being full of 'Rippereologists', their fans, and general weirdos? Whilst we're on the subject, why were there never any pubs called 'The Doctor Crippen'; 'The George Joseph Smith'; 'The John Reginald Christie'; 'The Acid Bath Murderer', eh? How come saucy Jack gets the preference? Imagine the conversation: "Fancy a drink?" "Yeah. Where do you want to meet?" "What about down the Dennis Nilsen, say eightish?" "Fine." Edinburgh has a Burke & Hare pub, apparently best known for its strippers and pole-dancers. I think Ripperologists actually preferred that the name reverted to The Ten Bells - authenticity, and all that. The next landlord still sold their magazine - and the From Hell paperback - across the counter (not sure if that's still the case, rarely drink in there these days).
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Aug 5, 2015 8:22:14 GMT
Is it me, or did the 'Jack The Ripper' pub change it's name because the serious drinkers were sick to the back teeth of the place being full of 'Rippereologists', their fans, and general weirdos? Whilst we're on the subject, why were there never any pubs called 'The Doctor Crippen'; 'The George Joseph Smith'; 'The John Reginald Christie'; 'The Acid Bath Murderer', eh? How come saucy Jack gets the preference? Imagine the conversation: "Fancy a drink?" "Yeah. Where do you want to meet?" "What about down the Dennis Nilsen, say eightish?" "Fine." Edinburgh has a Burke & Hare pub, apparently best known for its strippers and pole-dancers. I think Ripperologists actually preferred that the name reverted to The Ten Bells - authenticity, and all that - and the next landlord still sold their magazine - and the From Hell paperback - across the counter (not sure if that's still the case, rarely drink in there these days). Probably not very PC now but I have fond memories of seeing a stripper there when I was sixteen. The pub is one of three in the aptly named 'pubic triangle' on the Westport. The Westport boasts several good secondhand book shops so for your pulp and genre fan it all fits neatly into place.
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Post by dem bones on Aug 5, 2015 8:47:18 GMT
Probably not very PC now but I have fond memories of seeing a stripper there when I was sixteen. The pub is one of three in the aptly named 'pubic triangle' on the Westport. The Westport boasts several good secondhand book shops so for your pulp and genre fan it all fits neatly into place. Knew I could rely on you, Craig. Last night's Thamesmead FC versus Clapton friendly was abandoned after fifteen minutes when fighting broke out between the latter's Ultra's and members of a far right group. The Ultra's are likely to be very much in evidence at tonight's Museum demonstration. I went on a Ripper tour at the end of the nineties with an American resident in London and her mum, who was visiting. It was dire: 'see that warehouse over there? Well under that there used to be...'etc etc. Plus, as Dem knows, we have a Ripper tour guide as a mutual and distant acquaintance, and the less said about him... In it's early years, the great man's "walk" encompassed a seven mile bus and tube hike from Liverpool Street to a certain North London destination where his exhausted punters learned of Jack's little suspected vampire connection. This was around the time of; The amazing Mr. Blasko. Truly, they broke the mould ....
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Post by ripper on Aug 6, 2015 8:53:59 GMT
Hahaha Craig...love that nickname for the area :-).
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Post by DemonSpawn on Aug 6, 2015 15:16:52 GMT
Edinburgh has a Burke & Hare pub, apparently best known for its strippers and pole-dancers. I think Ripperologists actually preferred that the name reverted to The Ten Bells - authenticity, and all that - and the next landlord still sold their magazine - and the From Hell paperback - across the counter (not sure if that's still the case, rarely drink in there these days). Probably not very PC now but I have fond memories of seeing a stripper there when I was sixteen. The pub is one of three in the aptly named 'pubic triangle' on the Westport. The Westport boasts several good secondhand book shops so for your pulp and genre fan it all fits neatly into place. Oh dear, secondhand bookshops that are good for horror and genre novels, pubs, a Ripper museum. It all sounds most excellent and a very good day out indeed! What a pity That London is so far away from Yorkshire!
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Post by dem bones on Aug 7, 2015 7:10:18 GMT
Oh dear, secondhand bookshops that are good for horror and genre novels, pubs, a Ripper museum. It all sounds most excellent and a very good day out indeed! What a pity That London is so far away from Yorkshire! Er, that's Edinburgh has the decent secondhand bookshops, Mr. Spawn. London? You're not missing much. Gloomy Sundae/ Vault Digital Library Had planned to post an on the spot report from Wednesday's Jack The Ripper Museum protest - don't worry: there's always next week and it should be open then! - but that was before upgrading to bastard Windows 10 (don't ask). Anyway, in the meantime, lots happening, including a suffragette themed street protest, Mark "The Man Behind The Museum" Palmer-Edgecumbe talking complete bollocks, Architect Andrew Waugh complaining that he was duped and slamming the project as "salacious misogynist rubbish", and ...., and there really is no stopping him. The scene at 6.25 am this morning. Gloomy Sundae/ Vault Digital Library
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Post by pulphack on Aug 7, 2015 13:26:02 GMT
John Pope De Locksley indeed - it's nice to know the son of Bela is still about. NOTHING will ever put him out of business...
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Post by Dr Strange on Aug 7, 2015 15:01:48 GMT
I'm a little confused - is it the same person claiming Lugosi for his father and Jack The Ripper for his great-grandfather?
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Post by dem bones on Aug 7, 2015 15:15:18 GMT
I'm a little confused - is it the same person claiming Lugosi for his father and Jack The Ripper for his great-grandfather? ... and Robin Hood as his illustrious ancestor? Yes, that's him. Odd thing is, as mentioned earlier on this thread, recently two rival Ripper tours passed by while I was slumming it in Spitalfields one evening. It's only when I saw the Guardian photo (i.e., Entire Ripper Industry is rubbish), I realised that the gent conducting one of them was the latest incarnation of our man of a million faces/ personalities. I'd not seen him for a decade. In fact, the last time was when he led his party into The Brown Bear, which, until Ripper Street hit the scene, was avoided by every other JTR tour as irrelevant (unlike the delivery area behind Tesco's, presumably).
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