Evil Scientist
Crab On The Rampage
answering the call of the Weird
Posts: 18
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Post by Evil Scientist on Sept 16, 2014 16:15:24 GMT
A beautiful list of beautiful things indeed! As somebody who worked at a library (and would go back there, if didn't have other stuff to do), I'm all for that. Once again: e-readers will never be able to replace all those characteristics of real books. But sometimes they are just very handy. In a few years times when I won't be living in a dorm and I'll have the chance to stockpile all the books I want... It's always strange when booksellers/shopkeepers sneer about their own stock! I mean, just stop selling it or be happy that finally some weirdo is relieving you of that burden!!
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Post by mattofthespurs on Sept 16, 2014 16:38:40 GMT
Delighted to see that my modest post has touched so many collectors and book lovers. Although I shouldn't be surprised as this site is the foremost for both in my opinion. Keep smelling those books!
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Post by ripper on Sept 16, 2014 18:27:38 GMT
Great post, Matt! I agree that physical books can never be replaced by electronic books. I don't actually own a Kindle or other e-reader; I just use the free Kindle for PC application on my desktop.
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Evil Scientist
Crab On The Rampage
answering the call of the Weird
Posts: 18
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Post by Evil Scientist on Sept 16, 2014 19:03:09 GMT
Keep smelling those books! You could make that the tagline for these forums
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Post by jamesdoig on Sept 16, 2014 21:43:45 GMT
I'm just old fashioned (at the stately age of 46!) and like a full library of spines looking out at me. I like the musty smell of an old book, or the acidic smell of a new one. I like lurid covers and even more lurid back cover blurbs. I like discovering old names and addresses in second hand books and sometimes the odd cryptic message. I'm a couple of years older than you and feel the same. Last week I was at the junk shop at the tip and found a $50 note pressed between the pages of A.S. Byatt's Possession (then promptly coughed it up when I left $50 at an ATM on Saturday night). I also like those bookshop stickers that you find on the inside covers of old books - one day I'll do some sort of catalogue of those.
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Post by dem bones on Sept 17, 2014 5:29:01 GMT
Keep smelling those books! You could make that the tagline for these forums Should Scotland vote 'Yes' to Independence on Thursday, we will certainly have to amend the "Brit Horror Pulp Plus" strap. "Brit Horror Pulp Plus ... Scotland, Australia, Europe, USA, Asia, Mars ...."
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Post by pulphack on Sept 17, 2014 5:55:11 GMT
Have to agree with everything that's been said here... Maybe it is a generational thing in some ways - if I started reading now, would I feel the same? I have a Kindle but hardly use it. In theory it's great for holidays (saves packing loads of books, and also leaves room for the loads you might buy when you're away) and is also an excellent way of getting hold of things that are not so much expensive as just bloody hard to find! It also allows people to get work out quickly, cheaply, and at affordable prices without taking a loss, etc.
But... when you pick up something off the shelf, it really is the feel, the memory of where you got it and who you were with, and all those other things that make us treasure objects.
Having said that, got a load of Len Levinson titles at a snip for Kindle that enables me to read more of him rather than pay hideous Abe & Ebay prices. Swings and roundabouts, and all that.
Paper over electronic for all the meta-meta-textual nuances, then.
Go on, beat that for pretentious!
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Post by pulphack on Sept 17, 2014 5:58:31 GMT
Sorry, double clicked by accident... whip these out, Dem. Ta.
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Evil Scientist
Crab On The Rampage
answering the call of the Weird
Posts: 18
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Post by Evil Scientist on Sept 17, 2014 6:42:06 GMT
I'm sort of happy that my post led to this discussion! It's nice to see some well-formulated opinions on this topic, especially that there's a similar exchange on another forum I frequent. One of the important things said there is that e-books shouldn't aspire to become "replacements for books", or imitations - they should be treated as a different medium of some sorts.
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Post by dem bones on Sept 17, 2014 7:04:38 GMT
Eh? Oh, I see what you mean now .... One of the important things said there is that e-books shouldn't aspire to become "replacements for books", or imitations - they should be treated as a different medium of some sorts. Why? I certainly don't buy into this physical books = REAL books and e-books are somehow "inferior" snobbery. Surely the most important thing is that people enjoy the reading experience. How they go about it is purely down to personal preference. Something I love about haunting bookshops, markets, car boots & Co. as opposed to the Am*zon/ Abe b**ks/ eBay experience is the sheer randomness of it all - you never know what, if anything, you'll come away with. Sunday gone, had some business down Green Park way. Walking home, cut along Charing X Road, not realising that all the second-hand bookshops would be open. Joy of joys, sitting on a shelf in the downsized Quinto's, a copy of Jeremy Dyson's terrific The Haunted Book for three quid - had previously only read it on loan from library. Hit Brick Lane market just in time to nab two early 'sixties issues of The Saint Mystery Magazine, GNS's The Black Fedora, 'Rosie Dixon's Confessions of a Night Nurse and HAK's The Fungus, £2 the lot. Other Sundays, there'll be nothing. Funny how it's those days when you're not expecting any paperback action can turn out the most exciting. Could probably land the same haul of glorious trash off Am*z*n easily enough, but, for me, that wouldn't be the same - there's none of that all important sense of ADVENTURE to it. But as with physical books vs. e-books, i can't see there's a right way or wrong way of doing it. It's all up to the individual, and thank goodness for that.
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Post by pulphack on Sept 17, 2014 7:51:45 GMT
As it goes, e-books do have the potential to be different medium. You could put animation into some sections, introduce hyperlinks to allow you to juggle the order in which sections appear, or even have hidden elements that need some kind of code broken. Things that can make a narrative a little more interactive. Which would by no means replace the conventional paper based narrative, but add options that can be there to an extent on paper (as in those Livingston & Jackson books, and books with sealed sections) but are able to realise those potentials with bells and whistles. I'm not sure how technologically easy this would be at present for e-readers and e-book programming as opposed to, say, game programming, and what effect this would have on cost. But its not far off - might even be here, but not being a big e-book reader I wouldn't have known!
Of course,the temptation would be for some eejit publisher to overdo it at the expense of the overall effect, but then that's publishers for you.
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Post by pulphack on Sept 17, 2014 7:52:24 GMT
... and you can put 'em away now, Dem. Ta.
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Post by ripper on Sept 17, 2014 8:22:53 GMT
One aspect of ebooks that I don't like is that I don't have the same sense of ownership with an ebook that I get with physical books. With a kindle book, I am very limited with what I can do with it. I have to read it on a kindle device or with a kindle for pc app; I can't convert it to another, more convenient, format, due to drm, despite having purchased it. Once you buy a kindle book then you are tied into using it as amazon sees fit. I have physical books that I have owned for 40+ years, but I have no idea if the kindle books I have bought will still be available to me 40 years hence. Too many times in the past I have bought a piece of download software, only to lose it due to a hard drive failure or virus and not being able to remember a key to re-install it or the company disappearing from the net.
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Post by dem bones on Sept 17, 2014 8:31:33 GMT
As it goes, e-books do have the potential to be different medium. You could put animation into some sections, introduce hyperlinks to allow you to juggle the order in which sections appear, or even have hidden elements that need some kind of code broken. Things that can make a narrative a little more interactive. Which, coincidentally, is exactly what you get with The Haunted Book in whichever format. Hit (*ahem* am I just about to accidentally type this?) www.canongate.tv/haunted and you get a whole bunch of goodies inc. bonus story and a very fetching spooky video. Would still prefer the bonus story to be included within the phys. book's covers, but no denying it's making good use of the technology. One aspect of ebooks that I don't like is that I don't have the same sense of ownership with an ebook that I get with physical books. With a kindle book, I am very limited with what I can do with it. I have to read it on a kindle device or with a kindle for pc app; I can't convert it to another, more convenient, format, due to drm, despite having purchased it. Once you buy a kindle book then you are tied into using it as amazon sees fit. I have physical books that I have owned for 40+ years, but I have no idea if the kindle books I have bought will still be available to me 40 years hence. Too many times in the past I have bought a piece of download software, only to lose it due to a hard drive failure or virus and not being able to remember a key to re-install it or the company disappearing from the net. That would be one of my strongest reservations about going digital, rip. i just don't trust the corporates to play fair. Not saying they would take advantage (perish the thought) but could come a time you're forced to shell out on more software or watch your collection vanish overnight. Then again, fire, flood, plague of locusts could wipe out a physical collection just as swiftly. you take your chances.
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Post by andydecker on Sept 17, 2014 20:13:29 GMT
One aspect of ebooks that I don't like is that I don't have the same sense of ownership with an ebook that I get with physical books. With a kindle book, I am very limited with what I can do with it. I have to read it on a kindle device or with a kindle for pc app; I can't convert it to another, more convenient, format, due to drm, despite having purchased it. Once you buy a kindle book then you are tied into using it as amazon sees fit. I have physical books that I have owned for 40+ years, but I have no idea if the kindle books I have bought will still be available to me 40 years hence. Too many times in the past I have bought a piece of download software, only to lose it due to a hard drive failure or virus and not being able to remember a key to re-install it or the company disappearing from the net. Well said, Ripper. I have the same feelings about this. And still I buy more Ebooks then books nowadays. Reading fine print seems to have become such work: for this the Kindle is great. I even buy old books I have again as Ebooks for re-reading purposes, especially if they are cheap. The 24/7 ordering is so convenient. Instant gratification.
But it is not the same as a "real" book. As I have to read a lot of original manuscripts, these books are basically worthless for me. They are just another file which can be deleted on a whim. Nothing like having a real book in your hands.
And if some day power or Internet is down, I will still have my books.
Another thing which becomes ever more a put-off for me is the flood of self-published crap. These atrocious covers, the un-edited wanna-be novellas. Call me elitist, but in my book the loss of editorial control is another nail in the coffin of genres. I read a blog in the Amazon-Hachette debate where the writer seriously favoured books done by CreateSpace over the rest of the market. Sure, books done in the quality of your schoolwork published in a copy-shop. I got a few of these CreateSpace Editions, and these are shitty books.
Frankly, no Ebook can ever give one the same joy as an old, musty paperback you discover in a book store. Or in the Vault
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