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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jun 21, 2011 10:18:36 GMT
Nosferatu’s unstinting gratitude gets small reward by my first review of one of his books. It probably qualifies for the Vault under the sole condition that it is a pan/ballantine paperback with a cover design by Bob Pepper.  David A Riley has remarked somewhere that he doesn’t read much fantasy nowadays and I’m the same. Having considered this I wondered whether a certain bleak cynicism creeps up in the middle years – fantasy becomes whimsical, less supported by any true conviction that there are better things beyond us, perhaps it becomes a childish throwback. Who knows? Dunsany's, Don Rodriguez: Chronicles of the Shadow Valley, was published in 1922. It was his first novel and is set in a Romantic Spain that never decorated a history book because it never existed. The device of Spain seems to be a means of creating a parallel mystical world but Dunsany in this first book seemed also unwilling to risk an uncompromising fantasy world without something tangible for his readership to cling on to – hence Spain. Sufficiently far off to be romantic, sufficiently near to be comprehensible. Chronicles of Shadow Valley is basically flawed. The modern humour is fine if you like modern humour. At times the prose rambles. It’s somewhat episodic. It’s simply not as good as later novels. But it still shines well above most modern fantasy authors on a number of levels. The most paramount being perhaps the beautiful use of language, ‘he dreamed he walked at night down a street of castles strangely colossal in an awful starlight, with doors too vast for human need, whose battlements were far in the heights of night…’ followed maybe by an ability to create a sense of whimsical longing for other realms which would bear later fruit in more mature works; to lesser degrees it offers an insightful use of symbolism, understanding of humanity and interesting characterization. Lovecraft’s ‘The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath’ was inspired in part by Dunsany but if you are a horror afficionado I wouldn’t take Rodriguez as your first door into Dunsany’s world unless it is to have a brief look at the chapter on the Professor of Saragossa which is a brilliant description of a magician and his powers. |
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Post by andydecker on Jun 21, 2011 11:14:58 GMT
I wondered whether a certain bleak cynicism creeps up in the middle years – fantasy becomes whimsical, less supported by any true conviction that there are better things beyond us, perhaps it becomes a childish throwback. Who knows? I think it is more a problem of the limits of the genre. There are so few templates which are endlessly duplicated; how many "re-imaginings" of Lord of the Ring ot the Artus cycle can one stomach? I still read a lot of fantasy, and I have to say that those I like are those which become increasingly insular in their concepts and are seldom mass-compatible. Also so many fantasy concepts have become toxic. Take just the Lost World tale like Howard or Merritt wrote, no publisher would touch this today. And who could blame them. Those Ballantine covers are so beautiful.  |
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Post by David A. Riley on Jun 21, 2011 12:20:00 GMT
I think you're probably right, Craig. Also, having read some of the best, too many others - and there are too many others - pale beside them. Plus, when it became the norm to have endless thick novels as part of a series that went on forever, I'm afraid that was the killing blow. Plus, some of them never seem to get anywhere. The action - if you can call it that - seems to get stuck in first gear.
The last fantasy novels I really enjoyed reading after Lord of the Rings, were Moorcock's, which at least came in easily digestible novels of not much over 100 pages. He reputedly wrote over a weekend and they could easily be read in the same time frame!
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jun 21, 2011 12:32:29 GMT
Moorcock was fantastic then David. Some of his works stand the test of time but I tried reading a few recently and they didn't quite grip me. Product of that wonderful age I think. Sure he did them from Tarot readings.
I agree as well Andy. I suppose the templates were essentially Dunsany, Tolkien, Eddison, David Lindsay and Peake. Maybe I've missed someone important but essentially you had - the other realm, the struggle against evil, the quest of discovery, the simple love of the 'other world'.
The modern fantasy I have read (and largely left unfinished) seems to concern, maudlin sentimentalism, emotion, the interplay between stereotyped characters, humour and in-jokes on the genre. It centres around the wafer thin template of greater men with little of the depth of understanding. It's clear reading Dunsany - who was part of that Yeat's magical circle thing - that he had a deep understanding of the 'other world' based probably on personal experience of what might be termed magic.
Of course I'm an old cynic now and could be accused of not reading enough modern stuff but sometimes the first page tells you that it's going to be really really crap.
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Post by Johnlprobert on Jun 22, 2011 8:14:29 GMT
Count me in as a fan of Moorcock, Eddison, Peake et al. One I'd add to that list is Poul Anderson who also wrote nice slim books where one paragraph detailing an incidental adventure of the hero would be stretched out to an entire sub-trilogy today.
Dunsany never did it for me I'm afraid, neither his Pegana books or The Kind of Elfland's Daughter, but perhaps that's not surprising.
The only modern fantasy author I've really enjoyed is Stephen Donaldson, but I think that's because his Thomas Covenant books have such an interesting central character he was able to trash genre conventions and consequently upset a lot of 'traditional' fantasy fans. I'm waiting for his new sequence to finish before I get started on it.
I do have Patrick Rothfuss on the shelf, though, for when I'm feeling brave - it's a big book.
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Post by David A. Riley on Jun 22, 2011 9:01:59 GMT
I too struggle with Dunsay, though I feel guilty about it, for some unknown reason.  My own favourite modern author of fantasy, now sadly dead, is David Gemmell. His books I could devour. Though I'm probably best advised to read them instead, |
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Post by andydecker on Jun 22, 2011 9:57:09 GMT
Count me in as a fan of Moorcock, Eddison, Peake et al. ... The only modern fantasy author I've really enjoyed is Stephen Donaldson. I do have Patrick Rothfuss on the shelf, though, for when I'm feeling brave - it's a big book. Is the Peake really worth the effort? I read a lot of the classics, from Hodgeson to Morris, but I started a few times with the Peake and struggled. I know that Moorcock is his No.1 fan, and I quite liked the tv-adaption, but I wonder. Back when the first Donaldson´s were published I really liked the books. Some time ago I wanted to re-read the first novel and thought it rather tedious. Maybe it was the translation. Some years ago when sf was still in vogue they published his GAP cycle. I thought the first one a bore and stopped reading them, but it had an essay from the writer about his work where he analyzed the plot of Wagner´s The Ring - as the novel was kind of inspired by this - and this was bloody marvelous. The first Rothfuss is a magnificent novel. Very well written and an atmosphere so thick you can cut it with a knife. But it is a bit slow at times. A very good novel is Peter V Brett The Painted Man. This has good ideas and a lot of conceptual wow moments. Personally I am big fan of K.J.Parker. His novels are too long, yes, and they are truly dark and the most cynical fantasy I ever read. He doesn´t do elves or magical rings but horrible family relations which always have a bloody end. His Fencer Trilogie has such gems as a law system where instead of an attorney you hire a fencer which will fight for you in court. First blood, and you have won your case. Its basically a tale of two brothers which have a long feud, and through the actions of one of them cities are destroyed and a lot of people massacred, while the "hero" in retaliation murders the young son of his brother and builds a bow from his innards, which he presents as a gift to the father. These are just some highlights.  |
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Post by David A. Riley on Jun 22, 2011 10:03:21 GMT
I would personally recommend the first two Gormenghast novels, which are brilliantly dark, eventful, complex novels which create a totally believable if bizarre world, full of odd characters, whose lives you somehow get involved with. The third, Titus Alone, didn't work for me and I abandoned it halfway through.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jun 22, 2011 10:08:52 GMT
Count me in as a fan of Moorcock, Eddison, Peake et al. ... The only modern fantasy author I've really enjoyed is Stephen Donaldson. I do have Patrick Rothfuss on the shelf, though, for when I'm feeling brave - it's a big book. Is the Peake really worth the effort? I read a lot of the classics, from Hodgeson to Morris, but I started a few times with the Peake and struggled. I know that Moorcock is his No.1 fan, and I quite liked the tv-adaption, but I wonder. Back when the first Donaldson´s were published I really liked the books. Some time ago I wanted to re-read the first novel and thought it rather tedious. Maybe it was the translation. Some years ago when sf was still in vogue they published his GAP cycle. I thought the first one a bore and stopped reading them, but it had an essay from the writer about his work where he analyzed the plot of Wagner´s The Ring - as the novel was kind of inspired by this - and this was bloody marvelous. The first Rothfuss is a magnificent novel. Very well written and an atmosphere so thick you can cut it with a knife. But it is a bit slow at times. A very good novel is Peter V Brett The Painted Man. This has good ideas and a lot of conceptual wow moments. Personally I am big fan of K.J.Parker. His novels are too long, yes, and they are truly dark and the most cynical fantasy I ever read. He doesn´t do elves or magical rings but horrible family relations which always have a bloody end. His Fencer Trilogie has such gems as a law system where instead of an attorney you hire a fencer which will fight for you in court. First blood, and you have won your case. Its basically a tale of two brothers which have a long feud, and through the actions of one of them cities are destroyed and a lot of people massacred, while the "hero" in retaliation murders the young son of his brother and builds a bow from his innards, which he presents as a gift to the father. These are just some highlights. Donaldson I never quite got into. I read the first couple. I appreciate he injected a sorry anti-hero into the genre and that was innovative. I think Peake is a peculiarly British writer. Quite unique, very Dickensian. I can't imagine how it would be possible to like Peake without having a very British viewpoint. It's almost a study in peculiarity and eccentricism. I'm not saying you couldn't understand it Andy as of course you could: just maybe that it would be almost impossible to relate it to anything and I can understand how you would find it somewhat pointless. |
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Post by Johnlprobert on Jun 22, 2011 10:14:17 GMT
I think Peake is a peculiarly British writer. Quite unique, very Dickensian. I can't imagine how it would be possible to like Peake without having a very British viewpoint. It's almost a study in peculiarity and eccentricism. I'm not saying you couldn't understand it Andy as of course you could: just maybe that it would be almost impossible to relate it to anything and I can understand how you would find it somewhat pointless. Good point. I really loved Titus Groan and Gormenghast, not least because it was filled with the kind of characters I had met either in childhood or since, and Titus Alone is a really weird bleak picture of an industrialised landscape. PS Andy - Thanks for the heads up on the Rothfuss - I've heard nothing but good things about it / them so it might be time to get my head down. Any other Poul Anderson fans out there? |
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jun 22, 2011 12:26:36 GMT
Any other Poul Anderson fans out there? Sorry John; meant to reply to this. I rate Anderson very highly. I read a lot of his work as a teenager and I have at least five or six books on the shelves. I recently reread 'Trader to the Stars' where the exploration of space is dominated by merchant-adventurers including that warts and all character Van Rjin. Anderson was attacked like Heinlein for being right wing I believe. *Putting aside politics which to be honest I find worthless in making judgments on books, he was a very sound professional writer and very entertaining. * I'd see him more as Republicanish with free market as one of his principles |
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Post by doomovertheworld on Jun 22, 2011 17:21:11 GMT
count me as a fan of anderson as well. my fave out of his books are the high crusade (first contact book set in in the middle ages) and tau zero (what happens on a space ship if it can never stop accelerating and breaks light speed). i particular like the central concept at the heart of the latter book
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Post by cw67q on Jun 23, 2011 8:51:09 GMT
I haven't read much high fantasy or sword and sorcery since my mid teens, but a few highlights for me in more recent times would include:
Lord Dunsany's the Blessing of Pan, by some distance my favourite work by Lord D. More truely horror than fantasy by my favourite definition (gradual intrusion of the weird into the normal v swamped by the fantastic from kick off) but certainly not horrific in any sense other than, arguably, the spiritual. The novel deals with the slow corruption (which I mean in a non-pejorative sense) of a rural English village into paganism. It is a wonderfully uplifting book evoking awe rather than repulsion or horror in the sense of fear.
Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd & Gray mouser series which I revisited a few years back and was delighted to find held up to my memory form late childhood/ adolescence. As I'm sure most will know, this lies in the gutter running along the side of the sword and sorcery high road, the narrow strip inhabited by the low lifes exiled from more typical fantasy novels
Clark Ashton Smith's ironic short stories which are by turns witty and dark.
And most recently GRR Martin's series of novels A Song of Ice and Fire, which opens with A Game of Thrones. I was somewhat sceptical about starting this series: the short trailers I'd seen from the then forthcoming HBO tv series did nothing to attract me, I haven't been attracted to S&S for years, and I'd been underwhelmed by the author's vampire novel Fevre Dream (which most other readers seem to rate more highly than myself). But nonetheless I decided to follow up on the enthusiastic recommendation of a friend from another forum, and I am thorougly glad that I did. It has been many years since I enjoyed a series of books nearly as much as ASoIaF, and where I had been struggling to get much reading done for the previous 6 months or so (probably why I became a less frequent visitor to forums such as this) I suddenly found myself reading from the moment I got up until the moment I had to put the book down to eat, sleep, or go on line/into town to order the next installment. I've read finer literature, although these books are well written, but very few books that have driven me to read on with the same page turning obsession. However be aware that the series is not yet complete, and the signs are it may well be a few years before it is finished. GRRM took the better part of 10 years to write the latest two novels (#4 and #5 out of a projected #7) with #5 coming out within the next few weeks. Although it is hoped that GRRM has now written trhough the most difficult portion of the series where many plot threads come back together, and that the last two volumes may not have quite as long a gestation period as the previous two.
Cheers - Chris
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Post by cw67q on Jun 23, 2011 8:56:21 GMT
Interesting to see so much praise for Peake here, his name has been mentioned a few time recently on other forums too, I've never gotten around to reading him before but I'm becoming increasingly inclined to pick him up. For the first time in years I'm redaing more novels than short stories, and it just feels like now might finally be the right to give him a go, it is worth noting that all three Gormen novels can be picked up in a bumper single volume at areasonable price on amazon, and perhpas elsewhere.
- chris
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Post by cw67q on Jun 23, 2011 8:57:40 GMT
My own favourite modern author of fantasy, now sadly dead, is David Gemmell. His books I could devour. Though I'm probably best advised to read them instead,  Not read Gemmell, but like the joke. - chris |
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Not read Gemmell, but like the joke.