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Post by dem bones on Oct 5, 2010 7:41:16 GMT
if Bernard Bought The Farm is arguably the most horrible Black Book story to date, for me this next is among the saddest. Stephen Volk - Swell Head: The narrator, now in his old age, was eleven when his little brother was born to a poor farming family. The infant was normal in every respect save one - a medicine ball head on a kewpie doll body. As he got older, so his pathetic litte body atrophied until it became necessary to amputate everything below the neck. His head swells to the size of an indoor barrage balloon but still his loving parents and brother refuse to let the authorities take him off their hands. On the death of his parents, the brother takes over full care of Swell Head, even arranging for a prostitute to come dance to Billy Joel's Uptown Girl for him (don't be rotten; it's his favourite record), but they're both getting on in years and big bro is forced to face up to the dreadful question. What will happen to Swell if he dies first? It Begins At Home by John Probert makes me wonder just how much truth there is in it. Unlike most of the other stories in this book, this could just possibly be based on fact - disturbingly. I did wonder, towards the final paragraphs, whether it would peter out a little, but then came that final line. Bleak isn't the word for it. I think John Has learned some lessons from all that reading of Birkin recently! if you fancy some more Lord P in Birkin mood you can read Ophelia (from Wicked Desires) at Gray Friars Press.
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Post by cw67q on Oct 5, 2010 8:10:24 GMT
if you fancy some more Lord P in Birkin mood you can read Ophelia (from Wicked Desires) at Gray Friars Press. Thanks for posting this Dem. Nice story Lord P. Whilst I can see the ties to Birkin in some of Lord P's stories, including this particular tale, I much prefer Lord P's work to that of Birkin whom I've never rated very much. I struggled through the first Midnight House anthology and decided to pass on the second unless I ever saw it unmissably cheap on ebay (I have all but 2 of the MH books, part of me would like to collect them all as I almost have the set ). The difference for me is that Lord P appears to be leering and or winking rather gleefully (to borrow a word from earlier in the thread) when telling his tales. Whereas Birkin... well I think I've made myself unpopular enough today, so I'll leave it there. A Haunting Beauty does have one of the best book covers that I own though, mind (below follows an attemp to attach an image, apologies if it doesn't appear): [/img] - chris Attachments:
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Post by cw67q on Oct 5, 2010 8:41:48 GMT
Having posted two rather negative messages to this thread this morning, I thought I'd like to balance this by saying how much I'm enjoying 7th BB. Thus far the highlight for me has been Reggie Oliver's tale, but then Mr O is more often than not the highlight of any book he appears in. Special mention goes to Joel Lane for his brief but effective Morning's Echo, but I've liked all the entries I've read so far with Mr Finch up next if I stick to running order (depending on available time I sometimes skip over the lengthier tales until later). I might still read "Farm" as I note it isn't overly long and I do dislike leaving a story unread.
- chris
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Post by dem bones on Oct 5, 2010 8:48:46 GMT
well I think I've made myself unpopular enough today, so I'll leave it there. - chris not with me, you haven't, chris - from the response we've had to Birkin's work he has as many detractors as he does enthusiasts which, i'm sure, would have delighted him - mind you, if you say anything nasty about my heroine Christine Campbell Thomson i shall have to visit your house and decapitate your garden gnomes. am enjoying this thread! Bernard Bought The Farm isn't for everyone i guess, but from what little i've read of corpsie's work to date, it's not typical of his style. Pith in Filthy Creations 2 is a delightful Christmas shocker straight out of EC (you can imagine the Old Witch cackling along to the finale) and W.E.B. in #5 is as weird as it is nasty. Neither would prepare you for Bernard .... .
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Post by cw67q on Oct 5, 2010 9:16:50 GMT
mind you, if you say anything nasty about my heroine Christine Campbell Thomson i shall have to visit your house and decapitate your garden gnomes. Crikey! Happy, Dopey, Sleepy, Bashful, Doc, Necky & Stumpy - chris
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Oct 5, 2010 10:39:54 GMT
Hmmm, I might skip the "Farm" story on the basis of this discussion. I have zero interest in pysical or gross horror for its own sake and I feel life is too short to read many more such stories. On David's point about "shocking"* : I think there is almost nothing that puts me off a story or an author more than the desire to "shock" as an end in itself . Works that appear to my reader's eye to be solely or primarily motivated by the intent to shock (as opposed to scare, move, disturb or evoke awe etc) come across as embarassing and rather pitiful and quickly become tiresome. A sense of humour in the writing will go a long way towards making the shocker much more palatable for me, but the straight attempt to be as shocking as possible tends to remind me of the attention seeking behaviour of some children. I think the desire to shock as a driving force is perhaps best left behind with the teenage years, if indeed ever manifest. The occasional story is ok, perhaps, but an entire book, or author's output: yuk , but very much not . One of the authors that I find unreadable for this reason is Poppy Z Brite (who always seemed like a rather nice individual on discussion forums). This is not a moral judgement, it is a matter of taste about which I make no pretense to be objective or to expect others to share. Cheers - Chris (who was never much of a fan of the Pan Books of Horror, sorry) ( *I hasten to point out that as I've not read "Farm" I'm in no way making these statements about that particular story or author.) Far from being negative, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I also hate shock for shocks sake. The only time I value it is when people get on their high horse and say it should be banned. (I don't think anyone said it here) Then I'm all for it. I also fully respect anyone's desire to not read it ( I won't be reading it again and I reread most things) and even to say it shouldn't have been included on taste grounds or just on the grounds that its sick. These are aesthetic judgments which I fully respect. Most horror fans are used to dealing with horrible things and when they say something's sick its probably a fair judgment. I worry a bit (not a lot) about deciding not to buy an anthology because it includes one such story but that's fair enough as well.
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Post by Dr Strange on Oct 5, 2010 12:21:54 GMT
I completely agree with Chris and Craig, and especially about there being a world of difference between saying you don't like something (on whatever grounds) and saying that something shouldn't be allowed. I don't think anyone should be telling writers what they should or shouldn't write (and I completely understand the idea of "extreme writing" as a technical exercise), or telling publishers what they should or shouldn't publish.
On the other hand, as a book buyer, I also think that I have every right to say what I like (and will buy) and what I don't (and won't) - and (like it or not) this is all happening in a market economy. Also, and I may be making an incorrect assumption here, but I suspect that any writer is likely to take a lot more notice of people saying they are deliberately choosing not to read his work than he is of people saying they've read it and don't like it, even setting aside economic considerations.
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Post by dem bones on Oct 5, 2010 12:38:53 GMT
Crikey! Happy, Dopey, Sleepy, Bashful, Doc, Necky & Stumpy - chris i'm sorry, but this is Vault mate. To quote Leonard Cohen, the judgerments are severe. with no disrespect to Elric, Craig and Dr. Strange certainly articulates my own viewpoint. Elric, if you don't mnd me asking, how many horror anthologies have you read where you rated every story? i'm thinking that if you enjoyed all of them bar one that is a very good ratio. while i'm here, as the comparison has been made, for those of you who maybe weren't aware of it, this is what happened when Frighteners published Eric The Pie which, as he mentioned, at least in part, influenced corpsie's story. shock for shock sake? i think you have to take any example of this on it's relative merits. i'd agree there's nowt more tedious than some idiot giving it "look how incredibly controversial I am!" but there are occasions when it can work - for me, it sure does in some of the (for want of a better term) music i listen to. Bernard ... did it for me as a one off. if i knew to expect to be "shocked" by every other story James writes from now on, i'd soon get very tired of that.
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Post by Dr Strange on Oct 5, 2010 13:05:36 GMT
You can download a pdf of "Eric" from Masterton's website. I'd never read it before, until it was mentioned on this thread a week or so ago. Reading it was one of the things that persuaded me that I probably wouldn't enjoy James Stanger's story - which is the only reason I won't be reading it. I think it's a perfectly rational decision on my part - I know the sort of things I like and it would be perverse of me to choose to read something that I am so certain I would not enjoy, given the piles of stuff I haven't got time to read but really would like to.
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Post by Johnlprobert on Oct 5, 2010 13:28:39 GMT
I have to say that ‘Bernard Bought the Farm’ has possibly presented me with the first ever quandary I’ve had with horror, and certainly the first one since I started writing it myself.
I’ll confess straight away that I personally didn’t like it – I thought it was excessive and the balance of gratuitous shock to worthwhile story was so far in favour of the former that I found it an extremely unpleasant reading experience. This is not necessarily a criticism – if that was the author’s intention then he succeeded, although I have found myself wondering quite why someone might have that intention in the first place.
Anyway, reading the story hasn’t put me off the Black Books anymore than Kowlongo Plaything et al haven’t stopped me loving the Pans. Although they nearly did at the time when I was buying them.
Which kind of brings me round to the point I want to make:
I’m not the only one in my life who reads The Black Book of Horror. My family, my friends, and a lot of people at work all like to get copies of books I have stories in and Black Book 7 has been no exception. None of these people are hardened gore fans, they just like to read a good story and it’s been a delight to have them read the books and do the old ‘Hey this horror stuff’s actually quite good!’ routine.
As soon as I read ‘Bernard Bought the Farm’ I had to ring round the people who I knew already had it to warn them off it, and I can’t possibly let family members get hold of a copy. This is not because I believe in censorship. This is because I know it will really upset them, and they won’t be expecting it based on books with stories of mine in that they’ve read before. I’ve only been moved to post all of this today because this morning my secretary said she’d read it ‘just to find out what kind of thing you would warn me about’ and doesn’t fancy picking up a Black Book in the future ‘in case there’s another one like that in it’. To be honest I felt a bit embarrassed about that.
I support everything that’s been said on this board about it being perfectly within the rights and remit of the Black Book series to publish such a story and I would never presume to suggest to Charlie what he should and shouldn’t publish. But there’s also a part of me that wants to see the Black Book of Horror do really well, perhaps even gain a kind of mainstream acceptance. We’ll never actually be mainstream here and that’s part of the fun, but it’s only fun if we’re sidelined for good reasons, and I don’t think that kind of story is a good enough one.
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Post by paulfinch on Oct 5, 2010 16:59:49 GMT
I have to say that ‘Bernard Bought the Farm’ has possibly presented me with the first ever quandary I’ve had with horror, and certainly the first one since I started writing it myself. I’ll confess straight away that I personally didn’t like it – I thought it was excessive and the balance of gratuitous shock to worthwhile story was so far in favour of the former that I found it an extremely unpleasant reading experience. This is not necessarily a criticism – if that was the author’s intention then he succeeded, although I have found myself wondering quite why someone might have that intention in the first place. Anyway, reading the story hasn’t put me off the Black Books anymore than Kowlongo Plaything et al haven’t stopped me loving the Pans. Although they nearly did at the time when I was buying them. Which kind of brings me round to the point I want to make: I’m not the only one in my life who reads The Black Book of Horror. My family, my friends, and a lot of people at work all like to get copies of books I have stories in and Black Book 7 has been no exception. None of these people are hardened gore fans, they just like to read a good story and it’s been a delight to have them read the books and do the old ‘Hey this horror stuff’s actually quite good!’ routine. As soon as I read ‘Bernard Bought the Farm’ I had to ring round the people who I knew already had it to warn them off it, and I can’t possibly let family members get hold of a copy. This is not because I believe in censorship. This is because I know it will really upset them, and they won’t be expecting it based on books with stories of mine in that they’ve read before. I’ve only been moved to post all of this today because this morning my secretary said she’d read it ‘just to find out what kind of thing you would warn me about’ and doesn’t fancy picking up a Black Book in the future ‘in case there’s another one like that in it’. To be honest I felt a bit embarrassed about that. I support everything that’s been said on this board about it being perfectly within the rights and remit of the Black Book series to publish such a story and I would never presume to suggest to Charlie what he should and shouldn’t publish. But there’s also a part of me that wants to see the Black Book of Horror do really well, perhaps even gain a kind of mainstream acceptance. We’ll never actually be mainstream here and that’s part of the fun, but it’s only fun if we’re sidelined for good reasons, and I don’t think that kind of story is a good enough one. John, do you remember a zine called NASTY PIECE OF WORK back in the 1990s? It was billed as 'extreme horror' - and that's exactly what it contained. Whenever a copy arrived, you really weren't sure what you were going to get, which for me - I feel a little guilty to admit - was quite exciting in a 'naughty schoolboy' sort of way. Ellen Datlow selected many of its contributions for 'honourable mentions', but also railed against other parts of the content, which she labelled gratutious, self-indulgent, juvenile etc. It was a strange mix, that magazine. There were some very brutal and disturbing stories in there, which were so excellently written than I couldn't help but include them on 'My Best Ever Horror' list. But others were totally revolting, and I was almost embarrassed to have read them - but, as I said, that was part of the kick when it fell through the letter-flap. "Am I going to love this issue, or be sickened by it?" There was even a rumour that one chap, who regularly wrote to the magazine's letters page, praising everything in it, was a serious sex offender and that he was writing from a secure psychiatric unit. Another rumour held - and this one, I think, was at least partly factual - that a story in the last issue (I forget what it was called), was so disgustingly sick and perverted that the Arts Council funding that made the magazine look so impressive got pulled, and NPOW came to an abrupt end. It just goes to show. In horror, you can push the envelope significantly, but there are some boundaries you can't simply step over. That said, I haven't read BERNARD yet, but, in the spirit of that old cliche, "there's no such thing as bad publicity", I'm now quite eager to get to it. I'm not proud of that, I hasten to add, but I've always been a sucker for a freak show.
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elricc
Devils Coach Horse
Posts: 100
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Post by elricc on Oct 5, 2010 17:20:16 GMT
I read a lot of antholgies demonik, single authors etc and mixes, I think a lot of people have said it better than me, it was gratuitous and relied on the shock ( which quickly took over the story ) so that anything else was lost. I've read all the previous black books and enjoyed some stories and not others down to my personal taste. I thought Reggie Olivers, Paul Finch's Rog Piles were excellent, Stephen Volk's was poignant and sad. I don't want to read Bernard type stories in the same book as sublime stuff like the others I mentioned. I find it offensive and revolting, If as Lord P said, someone came into my house took a book of the shelf, flicked it open to that I would be ashamed and embaressed that I had it. ( I am a trustee of an animal rescue charity as well so that explains my disgust)
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Oct 5, 2010 18:02:29 GMT
I am sure that a number of people who, like me, never had any interest in this volume now feel they simply have to read the story in question.
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elricc
Devils Coach Horse
Posts: 100
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Post by elricc on Oct 5, 2010 19:16:07 GMT
I would only be thinking wether I liked the story or not Dem, not really rating each tale, nothing else has provoked a reaction from me. If I haven't liked a tale, I will usually re read to work out why, sometimes I change my mind some not. I would never re read Bernard, or pick up a book with a tale by the writer. I wouldn't want to contribute money to anything that had that type of stuff in it. I don't believe in censorship and if you want to read that sort of stuff fine, just should be in a more 'specialist' publication.
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Oct 5, 2010 19:48:51 GMT
I believe the author's house should be set on fire and the ground where it stood strewn with salt, but I do not believe in censorship.
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