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Post by cw67q on Aug 1, 2010 8:44:34 GMT
Dunsany's "the Blessing of Pan" is a favourite of mine. It might not be dark enough for all tastes here, but it fits the definiation of horror that suits me best (I will now paraphrase badly from an unremembered source, might even have been a newsgroup posting): Horror is the gradual intrusion of the unreal into the real as opposed to Fantasy where we begin with the unreal.
well something like that, less pithy, less pissy and less sweeping it was. I like it, not because I think it generically more accurate than another description but simply because it catches waht appeals to me, and why I generally prefer horror to fantasy. "Horrific" events/entities as such are not necessary for this concept of horror and "awe" will often do me fine (to glance back to an earlier part of this thread :-))
- chris
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Post by monker on Aug 1, 2010 14:47:49 GMT
What's so funny... oh...all the talk about Blackwood versus Machen and what constitutes a 'horror fan'? My own personal preference has little to with gore, gristle and the threat of physical violence and a lot to do with a disturbance in ones idea of natural reality, however minute. The issue with fantasy, for me, is that the strange is or becomes 'natural' (I suppose I'm just rewording what has already been said) so if I am to enjoy it, it would be from an entirely different angle or standpoint. SF is different again; I like all three genres to different degrees but it disappoints me when they are grouped together. Horror writers and fans are the most inclusive and tolerant of any genre but I personally don't go for blurring the boundaries. When other genres claim anything they tend to claim it exclusively but sometimes I think we can suffer from insecure 'genre' identity. I'm rambling, now...
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Post by Dr Strange on Aug 1, 2010 16:18:38 GMT
Well, as it was me who made the suggestion that knygathin isn't a "horror fan", I feel maybe I should defend it (or at least explain it) - I certainly wasn't trying to dictate what anyone should like or read, or what they should think about a story or writer; I was just making the point that if you are reading Blackwood or Machen because you think they are going to provide you with some (let's say) "spiritual insight", then it's going to be difficult to find any common ground for discussion with the person (me) who is reading them as entertaining fantasies. I just don't think that a desire for some sort of spiritual insight is what motivates the "horror fan" to read Blackwood or Machen.
As far as the horror/awe thing goes, the problem I've always had with both of these terms is that, if they are supposed to refer to my emotional response to the story (as opposed to the responses of characters in the story) then neither of them work. I usually prefer to say that I like "weird stories" and leave it at that.
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Post by monker on Aug 1, 2010 16:47:17 GMT
No problem, DS, I, for one, didn't have any issue with it as I knew what you were getting at.
However, I did find some of what knygathin was saying interesting. I personally don't view nature in any sort of literal religious context but I do think many environments have a sort of elemental pervasiveness about them that I have been known to ponder over. It comes with the territory of liking the kind of stuff I like, I should think.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Aug 1, 2010 17:19:51 GMT
What's so funny... oh...all the talk about Blackwood versus Machen and what constitutes a 'horror fan'? My own personal preference has little to with gore, gristle and the threat of physical violence and a lot to do with a disturbance in ones idea of natural reality, however minute. The issue with fantasy, for me, is that the strange is or becomes 'natural' (I suppose I'm just rewording what has already been said) so if I am to enjoy it, it would be from an entirely different angle or standpoint. SF is different again; I like all three genres to different degrees but it disappoints me when they are grouped together. Horror writers and fans are the most inclusive and tolerant of any genre but I personally don't go for blurring the boundaries. When other genres claim anything they tend to claim it exclusively but sometimes I think we can suffer from insecure 'genre' identity. I'm rambling, now... Made sense to me. Summarises what i feel myself.
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Post by Knygathin on Aug 10, 2010 21:36:50 GMT
Does the last sentence in the fourth paragraph from the end in May Day Eve, read "...and ‘vith Inc perhaps..."? I am reading an online version, and it doesn't make sense. I don't understand what that means. Anyone has the story in bookform so you can check?
Thanks!
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Post by dem bones on Aug 10, 2010 21:59:55 GMT
Does the last sentence in the fourth paragraph from the end in May Day Eve, read "...and ‘vith Inc perhaps..."? I am reading an online version, and it doesn't make sense. I don't understand what that means. Anyone has the story in bookform so you can check? Thanks! "We will go out again and see more. Up till midnight, you know, there is still the opportunity, and with me perhaps you won't feel so - so ..."
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Post by Knygathin on Aug 17, 2010 10:44:15 GMT
Thanks again demonik!
I have just read "The Pikestaff Case". First I thought the use of a mirror rather silly (though that solves itself towards the end), but this story overall strikes the right notes! The gentleman, pleasantly behaved, balanced and poised, who confidently sheds blinders and chooses a better reality. This is not entertainment, it is art. At the very least, the story makes a stand of a certain attitude and outlook towards life.
It is similar in structure (although focusing on ecstasy rather than horror) to Lovecraft's "From Beyond" and a personal favorite of mine, Ramsey Campbell's "The Render of the Veils".
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Post by Knygathin on Aug 30, 2010 10:06:07 GMT
"Sand" was one of the most satisfying reading experiences I've ever had. I was completely mesmerized.
I look forward diving into Incredible Adventures.
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Post by Knygathin on Oct 30, 2010 10:55:27 GMT
Anyway, here's a couple more stories with a "Panistic" theme for you to check out - "The Man Who Went Too Far" by EF Benson, and "The Music On The Hill" by Saki. And, similarily, "The Child That Went With the Fairies" by Le Fanu?
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Post by cauldronbrewer on Jun 10, 2012 12:03:22 GMT
Plus a Dover "John Silence" collection with the following "cases" - (1) A Psychical Invasion, (2) Ancient Sorceries, (3) The Nemesis of Fire, (4) Secret Worship, (5) The Camp of the Dog, and (6) A Victim of Higher Space. I just finished Dover's The Complete John Silence Stories--or at least the three stories I hadn't already read--and it reminded me of everything I like and everything I find frustrating about Blackwood. On the one hand, he's full of interesting ideas; on the other, he can go on about them until it becomes boring. At its best, his writing can be hypnotic; at other times, it's tedious. I do most of my reading before bed, and sometimes his stories just make me sleepy. Of the six stories, my favorite is Ancient Sorceries (the one about the French village inhabited by witches who turn into cats), followed by Secret Worship (the one about the German monastery haunted by devil worshipers). I also enjoyed parts of The Nemesis of Fire (the one about the Egyptian fire elemental) and The Camp of the Dog (the one about the werewolf in Sweden). The former has lots going on, including blood sacrifice, angry mummies, and face-blasting; the latter takes place in the wild, a setting that often brings out the best in Blackwood. A Victim of Higher Space (the one about the man who becomes trapped in hyperspace) has an interesting concept, but that's about all. A Psychical Invasion (the one about a haunted house) doesn't even have an interesting concept. While reading "The Camp of the Dog," I realized that my biggest issue with the John Silence stories is John Silence. He's an invincible, insufferable drama-killer. In "Ancient Sorceries," the best story, he's in the background for most of the tale; when he finally takes center stage, he undermines the aura of mystery with a dull explanation. He's also offstage for most of "Secret Worship," until he shows up to save the day and dispel all tension. I enjoyed the first half of "The Camp of the Dog," and then he showed up again to kill the suspense. The worst story, "A Psychical Invasion," focuses on Silence throughout and spends page after page describing him watching his cat and dog. In the Silence stories, the reader knows that Silence knows everything and has it all under control. In contrast, the Blackwood stories I like best, "The Willows" and "The Wendigo," center on characters who can't and don't fully understand what's going on or how to deal with it.
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Post by Knygathin on Jun 12, 2012 22:26:50 GMT
I have only read "Ancient Sorceries" among those I think. It was fine and atmospheric. (There seems to be something very rewarding about the mere presence of cats in supernatural tales!)
I am reading The Centaur right now. I didn't know Blackwood could be so humorous! Excellent observations of social behaviour and dialogue aboard the ship in the beginning of the book. Otherwise this is a great work on the subject of opening up the being to greater awareness of the panistic dimension, to Nature, to Truth beyond superficial appearances. Repetitive on the theme, but Blackwood is so good, and chants inspired glimmering variations as if in trance, to draw us in and gradually tare down our illusions. A joy to read.
Craig Herbertson said he couldn't remember any of the stories in Tales of the Uncanny . . ., having read it several times. I think it may be because Blackwood is so spiritual in perspective. I think the brains of his generation, the Spiritualists, worked differently from ours. He is very inspiring to read, but difficult to grasp and retain afterwards. Too spiritually philosophical, and materially abstract.
I have feeling that Blackwood is not as popular as, say M. R. James. One reason may be that Blackwood, in much of his work, turns his back on civilisation, even on human relations, to step out and become one with Nature. That is probably unbearable for most people.
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Post by Craig Herbertson on Jun 14, 2012 13:42:42 GMT
Craig Herbertson said he couldn't remember any of the stories in Tales of the Uncanny . . ., having read it several times. I think it may be because Blackwood is so spiritual in perspective. I think the brains of his generation, the Spiritualists, worked differently from ours. He is very inspiring to read, but difficult to grasp and retain afterwards. Too spiritually philosophical, and materially abstract. I Only couldn't remember them becasue I have a memory problem. I'm currently rereading a few thanks to Nosferatu's kind gift. I've started remembering them and how good they are.
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Post by Knygathin on Jun 14, 2012 18:26:12 GMT
I Only couldn't remember them becasue I have a memory problem. . . . My post was unfortunately formulated. I didn't mean to be personal and make a comment about your memory. Sorry that it came across like that. My intention was only to present a general idea about Blackwood's fiction and why some of his stories, or sections of them, are difficult to remember (I find it difficult myself).
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Post by Jojo Lapin X on Jun 14, 2012 19:28:35 GMT
My post was unfortunately fomulated. This sentence, too! Just kidding.
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