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Prism
Aug 20, 2010 8:28:37 GMT
Post by Craig Herbertson on Aug 20, 2010 8:28:37 GMT
Thanks Dem. Maybe I'm more rational asleep.
I know through a friend that Ian Rankin of Rebus fame, despite numerous best sellers, was pretty much living on a pittance quite late in his career. it was television appearances and adaptations that made the breakthrough to the point where he could think about sorting out a pension.
I admire you David for putting a lot of thought and energy into this and because your Northern practicality for want of a better phrase suggests you get things done. 'Beyond' being a fine example. It had all the makings and should have run a lot longer.
That whole era after the wonderful 70's destroyed several budding careers. I can say as a man who was writing consistently for years and getting at least some tiny bit of encouragement it certainly destroyed anything I had to offer and I am sure I was not alone.
Interest in horror seems to be growing partly because of boards like this and efforts by David and others. The question really is 'how much of a benefit to our industry would it be to go cheap in the mainstream?' At the moment a small press author can write to a small but enthusiastic audience. The more converts to one's work, of course, the better, but the more mainstream something goes the less I usually like it on the Mars Bar principle: that sacrifices in quality and unusual characteristics takes you from that special chocolate bar that you loved to a squidgy thing that everyone doesn't love but likes enough to eat. (in the end if the quality descends to gratuitous sex and violence level it transcends this simple equation and becomes a necessity)
I think it would be some benefit to have a platform like a quasi-word Wordsworth but more as a flagship advertisement for the authors rather than a money making concern. The hope would be to lead more people into the authors' work. Financially I believe it would at best support itself.
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Prism
Aug 20, 2010 8:46:11 GMT
Post by David A. Riley on Aug 20, 2010 8:46:11 GMT
Hi, Craig. Good points. Though I can't ever see a venture such as we're discussing ever being particularly profitable. If profitable at all. Anyone going into something like this would have to regard profit as a bonus at best. The first target would be to minimise any possible losses and aim at least to break even over a period of time. As I've said before, at least books don't date like magazines do.
As for quality, I can't see why this should be sacrificed. I hope not anyway. But quality is always a subjective thing anyway.
I agree with you about the 70s. I wasted the opportunities then because I was both too young and too lazy to take up the publishing chances that were available and complacently felt that things as they were would continue well into the future. They didn't. I remember going to meet with one of the senior editors at NEL in the late eighties when they were considering publishing a novel of mine. I was told that if they had had this book a year or so earlier they would have published it straight away, but the market was already changing. It changed very fast after that, in fact, and that novel was never published. Horror went down in popularity as fast, if not faster than when it went up.
By the way, I'm shocked about what you said about Ian Rankin. I have every single one of the Rebus books (though I haven't read them all by any means). He's one of my favourite writers. I love his descriptions of Edinburgh.
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Prism
Aug 20, 2010 9:36:36 GMT
Post by andydecker on Aug 20, 2010 9:36:36 GMT
And the digitisation of public domain material must make it tough to sell print copies of out-of-copyright material - many of the texts are freely available and the only value-add is a decent intro or critical apparatus. I know a few researchers/editors who are struggling to sell collections by interesting authors, or have sold them and seen them published, but haven't received a brass razoo. It is not public domain material any longer. Or old stuff. Have you read about US Dorchester books? The publisher of the last(?) horror massmarket line Leisure and the Hardcase Crime line and a lot of Thriller and romance stuff. According to some articles I read they go digital only. Seems they are in such financical troubles that this is a last effort before going bancrupt. Charles Ardai of Hardcase Crime is supposedly looking for a new publisher of his imprint. Now I believe it if I see it, if this will truly materialize, still. This would be a first. In the case of Leisure this also would be a hard blow for the genre. Sure, they published a lot of crap, but at least they did real horror. I still havn´t a Kindle and frankly I don´t want one, but I wonder if one isn´t forced in a few years to adapt. The problem I have with the small press is its insularity. You have to know about it, you have to seek it out. In the 70s or 80s you could even as a casual reader be informed about new releases just by browsing the stores. It was like as market, all the fresh tomatoes in a row. An editor once told me, a book which a prospective customer picks up to look at it is half a sale already. Today the buyer has to activly seek the product out. The product isn´t brought any longer to you, you have to seek out the product. How many novels are published and sink without a trace because the stores don´t order them any longer? Especially the chains? Of all the changes in publishing and distribution this is one of the worst, I think.
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Prism
Aug 20, 2010 9:57:42 GMT
Post by marksamuels on Aug 20, 2010 9:57:42 GMT
I must admit that (to echo one of Steve Jones's remarks on this subject) I worry whether the volume of readers is actually out there any more. It's certainly not there, imo, on the scale of the 70s, as Dem points out, because of multiple "new media" distractions. Are we a dying breed?
I suppose one of the other many good things about the small press is that they're flexible contract-wise, and limited edition rights don't impact on an author's ability to then sell on to the mass-market (erm... were that possible!)
I should put in a good word for Tartarus, btw. They've dipped their toes into relatively cheap paperbacks and have kept my The White Hands in print for years now. There's also a marvellous Mark Valentine collection in p.back out recently too.
Anyway, great stuff guys.
Mark S.
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Prism
Aug 20, 2010 13:19:16 GMT
Post by Craig Herbertson on Aug 20, 2010 13:19:16 GMT
The Ian Rankin one shocked me too David but it was from a very reliable source, another good friend and author who had a long chat with him I think believe it or not in the Oxford bar in Edinburgh. At the time you couldn't look at a news stand without a Rebus book falling on your head and he was already translated in loads of languages.
One of the top ten Scottish works in 2003ish, a mainstream historical work that really caught the eye, sold 6000 copies that year and the author, my pal, got a pittance for them.
Regarding Tartarus, Mark, I agree entirely. Brilliant publisher. Thank goodness they are there.
I also agree about your thoughts David on loss making. The central issue is to write good stuff but as we all discovered after the 70's there's little point writing things if no one is reading them. It's soul destroying. Perhaps a Wordsworth like publisher would at least afford some good authors an audience and, from there, there could be the possibility of the inevitable workshops and book signings that make a few quid. I for one am absolutely tired of being poor. There's not virtue in it whatsoever and its made even worse when reflected against that sort of internet glow of fame many here experience. I was on the telly in Germany today and I bet everyone expected me to drive off in a BMW instead of searching for the change for the bus.
The central thing in music is venue venue venue. Effectively loads of venues lots of people means CD sales and I've no doubt in publishing where the profit margin is squeaky, its exactly the same.
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Prism
Aug 20, 2010 17:59:34 GMT
Post by andydecker on Aug 20, 2010 17:59:34 GMT
I was on the telly in Germany today What program where you on?
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Prism
Aug 26, 2010 21:34:08 GMT
Post by dem bones on Aug 26, 2010 21:34:08 GMT
Bear with me because, unlikely as it may first appear, this does have some relevance to what we were discussing! Pulp Press is dedicated to providing entertainment and escapism in the form of dime novels, penny dreadfuls and spicy stories that will be accessible to everybody. Whether you're stuck in a dead-end job, fussing with your schooling or an out-of-work burlesque dancer you will not feel intimidated by the easy-going pulp fiction format of these racy numbers. Pulp press are a Brighton based independent who now have seven suitably lurid titles in print at £5.99 a time. They specialise in 23, 000 word novella's (i'm sure our authors will be able to give us an approximate idea of the page count - i didn't think to check) but, most attractive of all their books are standard '70's paperback size. I saw a copy of My Bloody Alibi earlier today, and it fitted in just so with the genuine articles from the 'sixties and 'seventies. As you guessed, the creasing and generally beat up look is all part of the cover design to give it that "authentic" touch, although they seem to have dropped the look for Warren Roberts' satanic thriller The Bell Of Girardius.
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Prism
Aug 27, 2010 7:33:42 GMT
Post by David A. Riley on Aug 27, 2010 7:33:42 GMT
Dem said:
"but, most attractive of all their books are standard '70's paperback size."
Truer words were never spoken!
That's what paperbacks shouild be like. Small, pocketable and cheap.
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Prism
Sept 20, 2010 7:39:12 GMT
Post by dem bones on Sept 20, 2010 7:39:12 GMT
more non- Prism news. just been reading the sales pitch for the forthcoming Mammoth Best New Horror 21 (launched at FantasyCon, i believe?). it's funny, i've never given the figures a thought before now, but "Each year the Mammoth Book of Best New Horror sells 5,000 copies. Last year's edition was no exception.". So evidently, the print run's the same as a Wordsworth Mystery & Supernatural edition. don't know if that figure surprises me or not! recently bought a copy of the Pulp Press original Killer Tease and plan to add at least a couple more. If Danny Hogan's novel - which, as i live and breath, reads like a Spicy Horror Stories for the 00's - is typical of the rest then that "23, 000 word novella's" translates as around 100 pages, making them slightly shorter than the classic 'seventies NEL so if you've an hour or so to spare, you shouldn't have any trouble digesting them in one sitting. First time i saw Killer Tease and My Bloody Alibi was in TYPE which, as you may have heard, deals in vintage paperbacks, and they blend in real well with all the authentic 'sixties and 'seventies stuff.
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Prism
Sept 20, 2010 9:19:40 GMT
Post by David A. Riley on Sept 20, 2010 9:19:40 GMT
That's an interesting bit of information, Kev. Makes Wordsworth's achievements look even more impressive. It's a pity, given that, they don't seem interested in venturing into the market with newer material. There's such a wealth of stuff out there these days, as both Charles Black and Johnny Mains have shown recently with their anthologies, not to mention so many others from various small presses.
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Prism
Sept 30, 2010 22:32:55 GMT
Post by David A. Riley on Sept 30, 2010 22:32:55 GMT
For anyone who is interested there's quite a bit on the BFS site now, including a copy of this, the cover for the proposed Christmas issue of Prism, which unfortunately will now not be published. I'm sure the picture will be familiar to everyone on the Vault, and is, of course, the work of Paul Mudie.
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Prism
Dec 1, 2010 11:46:00 GMT
Post by robertmammone on Dec 1, 2010 11:46:00 GMT
The combined edition for BFS members of New Horizons, Dark Horizons and Prism is off to the printers according to this: www.britishfantasysociety.org/Proud to say I have a story included in the upcoming volume. Fantastic!
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Prism
Dec 1, 2010 12:02:02 GMT
Post by David A. Riley on Dec 1, 2010 12:02:02 GMT
Congratulations, Robert.
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Prism
Dec 1, 2010 19:26:35 GMT
Post by robertmammone on Dec 1, 2010 19:26:35 GMT
Thanks David. It's a real thrill and a little humbling to be in it. Looking forward to having the book in my hands.
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Prism
Dec 2, 2010 10:23:23 GMT
Post by David A. Riley on Dec 2, 2010 10:23:23 GMT
By the way, the Mudie picture is included in the next Prism but, unfortunately, without the writing I was going to have on it. As it's included in the new bumper hardback edition, alongside Dark Horizons and New Horizons, I had no control over the layout and my lettering just disappeared. This is the cover of the new BFS Journal:
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