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Post by funkdooby on Apr 23, 2009 14:55:30 GMT
Thanks...I needed that...I've been in a foul mood all day because I can't get the Porsche I want in the right colour. Anyway...I did release The Wood as an eBook...gave us a huge new marketing base to rerelease all old classics in digital form to. (Gotta love those eReaders and Kindles). I think a good number of Guy's shorts are great...but that's just me. No I'm in a good mood again...ta. I said to GNS (or rather, to someone who had his ear, as he never seems to appear online in any form) years ago - make his work available as e-books. Release new novels that way. It's money for old rope. I'm not against making money - I just want the bugger to write some more horror novels (himself) Don't bother with a car - a helicopter is so much quicker
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Post by dem bones on Apr 23, 2009 14:59:46 GMT
Its very easy to stop this escalating, mr. ghostwriter. After half patronising funky to death, all you have to do is answer his original misgivings about the project with yes or no words. ie, is it written by GNS or not?
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Post by funkdooby on Apr 23, 2009 15:17:22 GMT
Its very easy to stop this escalating, mr. ghostwriter. After half patronising funky to death, all you have to do is answer his original misgivings about the project with yes or no words. ie, is it written by GNS or not? I've been trying to get a straight answer for days...unsuccessfully. Which leads me to believe that any forthcoming crabs, Sabat or even much vaunted Bamboo 2 work will probably not actually be written by GNS. I would venture to suggest that the idea is for the average reader to see the name Guy N Smith on the cover and think it's at the very least co-written by him. Not my idea of a GNS comeback, to be honest, and the reason I've harped on somewhat is because, as a long time fan, I'm very disappointed by this turn of events. I can't believe many will think it's a good idea.
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Post by ghostwriter2109 on Apr 23, 2009 16:27:23 GMT
Tell and ruin the marketing opportunities? Nah...I think it will be good to have an urban legend.
Which bits did GNS write? Which bits did Willie write ?
Can't you see the mythology growing? This will be great stuff for the radio interviews later in the year.
I promise to be a good boy and not to spread any more rumours, innuendos or marketing ploys...in this forum.
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Post by allthingshorror on Apr 23, 2009 16:37:46 GMT
I've been a fan of Guys since I was 12 - now 33, and like many am looking at GWP with interest. A GNS trademark is a bloody good idea, and having novels written by all and sundry (shit, even I'm writing one, inspired by this and after this threads been posted, bang goes Neil ever wanting to read it!) being released under this banner - The GNS Signature Series, I have no problem with.
James Patterson regualary writes with a team of authors, and it is often debated on how much he actually writes. He admits to writing an outline, and then the hired help will run with that and produce the book. He will then fix and edit where needed. To me, that isn't being a co-author, and cheats those readers who have bought the book with his name on it as co-author to read his words, his style.
But it's all part of the Patterson brand. And has helped him rake in the cash. And readers can be dumb as shit at times.
As a fan, I want to read the stories that Guy has written himself. I don't think the GNS brand is big enough, or that he is famous enough, or valid enough in these times as being able to do a James Patterson and carry it off, by lending story ideas and having others write for him.
This Meikle book (and I have no gripe against Meikle) seems like a weird ghostwritten book, where the ghostwriters name has put on the cover as a favour.
Is Guy being taken for a ride by GWP? As a fan, I truly hope not, and I hope that Neil is doing one of my favourite authors a great service and feathering his bed for the old buggers twilight years. And if he ism't, well - I know I wouldn't like to be known as the person who fucked Guy over. Because no matter what avenue he tried to go down in the horror genre in the future, people will ALWAYS know what he did.
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Post by funkdooby on Apr 23, 2009 17:13:28 GMT
This is the thing - with no disrespect to Guy whatsoever, the bare fact is that he has never been accepted by the horror elite and his work is looked down upon at best by a very large percentage of the horror reading public. I used to fume at the snide comments from Hutson (a man responsible for writing the worse horror novel ever to see print - Spawn) and others.
The fact that he sold so many novels, and had so many books published, speaks for itself. But putting GNS on the cover of a book is at least as likely to stop someone buying it than the opposite. I don't think the Guy N Smith 'signature series' is a good idea - those writers would almost certainly sell at least as well, if not better, just published without that on the cover. If Willie Meikle is a capable author (and it looks very much to me as though he his), then I can't see why on earth he would want to be involved with Crabs: Carnage - a title which is beginning to seem more and more apt.
Guy is a writer. If GWP has legs, why doesn't he get back to the horror fiction (or whatever fiction he wants to write) full time and do it himself, without ghostwriters or any other form of assistance?
I am saddened - but you know what they say...if something seems too good to true, it usually is.
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Post by pulphack on Apr 23, 2009 17:26:27 GMT
To be honest, this looks like someone getting the wrong end of the stick and then being stirred with it.
Neil, for whatever reasons of his own, is being mysterious and playful and a bit naughty. Make that a lot, actually.
But Funk, mate, I'm really not sure where you got the idea that it was all solely written by Guy - everything i've seen about it made it pretty obvious that there would be both work by Guy, and also work overseen by him.
Is it that the delineation between which title has which kind of input is unclear? If so, then that should be plain, I agree.
It's not a new idea - the Dumas were doing this kind of shit back in the 1880's, and no-one complains about the Count Of Monte Christo or the Three Musketeers, do they? Popular publishing has always been built on brands and branding, it's just more overt these days. or more honest - take your pick. For instance, there was a plan for Graham Masterton to do this about two years back, which I think has gone into abeyance at present.
Johnny - i have to disagree with you about Patterson. He publishes eight a year under his name. Writes about half himself, and also works on shaping outlines and copyediting on the other four - all of which have ghosting credits. It's very upfront. And he does do a lot of work on them, according to this bloke i know at Harper. I do agree that readers can be dumb as shit, but only because if they can't be bothered to read if it's wholly written or ghosted before banging down their cash then that's their fault. I always give a book a good going over in the shop - though i guess on-line buying changes this, perhaps?
Series fiction - multi-author character stuff - is more honest as you know the writers change. I guess the dispute is whether or not having this with authors is a good thing... is Guy's style copiable? well no, but if the books are marketed as Guy presents "a crabs novel with all the stuff you'd expect but in someone else's hand" than I really don't see what's wrong. If you don't want to buy it don't. If enough don't, it'll fizzle out.
Has anyone actually considered that Guy rates this idea? And that just maybe he doesn't want to write eight books a year at his age? This way he can write one or two and keep his name out there.
Also, it's about ego - which every writer (or artiste of any kind) has - if you got the chance to be your own brand and be perpetuated after your own demise (not that I'm killing him off yet), wouldn't you be tempted?
I bloody know I would...
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Post by funkdooby on Apr 23, 2009 17:47:53 GMT
To be honest, this looks like someone getting the wrong end of the stick and then being stirred with it. Neil, for whatever reasons of his own, is being mysterious and playful and a bit naughty. Make that a lot, actually. But Funk, mate, I'm really not sure where you got the idea that it was all solely written by Guy - everything i've seen about it made it pretty obvious that there would be both work by Guy, and also work overseen by him. Is it that the delineation between which title has which kind of input is unclear? If so, then that should be plain, I agree. It's not a new idea - the Dumas were doing this kind of shit back in the 1880's, and no-one complains about the Count Of Monte Christo or the Three Musketeers, do they? Popular publishing has always been built on brands and branding, it's just more overt these days. or more honest - take your pick. For instance, there was a plan for Graham Masterton to do this about two years back, which I think has gone into abeyance at present. Johnny - i have to disagree with you about Patterson. He publishes eight a year under his name. Writes about half himself, and also works on shaping outlines and copyediting on the other four - all of which have ghosting credits. It's very upfront. And he does do a lot of work on them, according to this bloke i know at Harper. I do agree that readers can be dumb as shit, but only because if they can't be bothered to read if it's wholly written or ghosted before banging down their cash then that's their fault. I always give a book a good going over in the shop - though i guess on-line buying changes this, perhaps? Series fiction - multi-author character stuff - is more honest as you know the writers change. I guess the dispute is whether or not having this with authors is a good thing... is Guy's style copiable? well no, but if the books are marketed as Guy presents "a crabs novel with all the stuff you'd expect but in someone else's hand" than I really don't see what's wrong. If you don't want to buy it don't. If enough don't, it'll fizzle out. Has anyone actually considered that Guy rates this idea? And that just maybe he doesn't want to write eight books a year at his age? This way he can write one or two and keep his name out there. Also, it's about ego - which every writer (or artiste of any kind) has - if you got the chance to be your own brand and be perpetuated after your own demise (not that I'm killing him off yet), wouldn't you be tempted? I bloody know I would... In the States - fair enough. You have authors like 'Michael Slade' (think that was the name) which was the pseudonym for a group of lawyers who wrote together. And yes, there is all manner of ghostwritten stuff, and novels such as those written by 'the new Virginia Andrews' - VA is much more prolific since she died than ever she was when she was alive I accept all this. But not from Guy N Smith The man is legendary for his hugely prolific output. There is no reason for him not to write himself that I can see. I don't remember seeing anything about GNS 'overseeing' work bearing his name (although I knew about the GNS signature series). I have (probably erroneously) been credited with being an expert on Guy N Smith. I have certainly loved his output and been a huge fan for 25 years. I've written articles on his style of writing and assorted other facets of his work. I know his market. I can say with some degree of certainly that the kind of people who read GNS will not easily accept books 'co-written' by others. I don't want to buy a dozen books that just have his name on the cover - I want to read what Guy Smith has written himself. If Guy thinks this is a good idea then Guy must have been persuaded that he'll make a nice pile of cash for his retirement. Having been had over more than once, he may think to hell with it, let's just rake it in anyway we can. I can't believe GNS has had a complete change of personality. This kind of venture just isn't him. He never wrote eight novels a year even at his peak He had six out in 1982, but he used to average 3 or 4, each of probably 30-50,000 words. I have no doubt he could still do that - and GNS is a natural writer. He's been at it for 60 years and when you write for that long, it's something that is in your blood. I will never accept that he is content to sit back and have other people write books in his name - that just isn't Guy Smith. Yep, the Yanks might have their ghostwritten and team written stuff, just as celebs have their ghostwritten autobiogs - but this is Guy N Smith we're talking about. I have never come across anyone in the public eye with less ego.
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Post by pulphack on Apr 23, 2009 18:02:03 GMT
Fair enough. You are an expert on GNS, actually - I'd consider you to be as such as you've written extensively on him, and have a good analysis of his style. And I'd accept your views on his fanbase, as you have that knowledge. So it seems to be the case that this concept just doesn't fit with him. Why is he doing it, then? Now I don't get it...
I will take issue with you over the misleading nature, with the proviso that all I've read about it was on here, and it did make it clear that he wouldn't be writing everything. I'd also add that wriitng may be in his blood, but he is nearly seventy (or is he over that now?) and he's entitled to slow down! Mind you, that only made Barbara Cartland speed up (her website - research only, honest - makes your mind boggle!).
Neil is trying to wind you up, though, so don't rise to it Funk.
Oh, by the way, just to be clear - when I talked about Guy's ego, I didn't mean his desire to be 'famous', more the idea that any writer wants their name to love on because of the work, and to create 'brands' as well as the work itself is the way that can be done these days (cf Virginia Andrews). Maybe that's why he thinks he should take this path?
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Post by funkdooby on Apr 23, 2009 18:34:22 GMT
Fair enough. You are an expert on GNS, actually - I'd consider you to be as such as you've written extensively on him, and have a good analysis of his style. And I'd accept your views on his fanbase, as you have that knowledge. So it seems to be the case that this concept just doesn't fit with him. Why is he doing it, then? Now I don't get it... I will take issue with you over the misleading nature, with the proviso that all I've read about it was on here, and it did make it clear that he wouldn't be writing everything. I'd also add that wriitng may be in his blood, but he is nearly seventy (or is he over that now?) and he's entitled to slow down! Mind you, that only made Barbara Cartland speed up (her website - research only, honest - makes your mind boggle!). Neil is trying to wind you up, though, so don't rise to it Funk. Oh, by the way, just to be clear - when I talked about Guy's ego, I didn't mean his desire to be 'famous', more the idea that any writer wants their name to love on because of the work, and to create 'brands' as well as the work itself is the way that can be done these days (cf Virginia Andrews). Maybe that's why he thinks he should take this path? For expert, read sad case with way too much spare time I think that's about the size of it (matron ). I think Guy has been convinced that all this is a good idea. Hell, it might be a good idea from his perspective. But the one thing we're not getting (any time soon) is new Guy N Smith novels (the bit he wrote - or was written for him - on his blog makes it seem that he is going to be back to his prolific best very soon). That is the one thing the fans have missed since the 90s. There was a gap of nearly two years between The Cadaver and Maneater - and that is as regular as it gets these days. I was under the impression that GNS would be writing his own, new novels and that they would be appearing from this year. Maybe I've misled myself by not paying close enough attention. But basically what we now have is the same situation we had before (Smith having a novel out every now and then from Severn House), but with lots of reissued stuff from GWP, the sole purpose of which is to make as much money as possible. So, for me at least, GWP has within a few days become completely irrelevant as they aren't going to be putting out any full length, up to date stuff from Guy, at least in the near future. I had such high hopes...but so I have before. I'm sure I'll survive the disappointment
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Post by andydecker on Apr 23, 2009 20:14:30 GMT
This is kind of sad.
As others has already said there is nothing wrong about ghostwriting or continuing the estate of a writer. Lustbader writing Ludlum, can be a nice novel. (I don´t know, never read one, as I am not a big on Ludlum.)
But considering todays market I frankly doubt that a writer like GNS captures the interest of a big enough audience for being profitable. I have I guess 3/4 of his books, and I doubt I would buy a reprint of one of his old novels I already have.
A new one, now that would be interesting, this I would buy maybe, but a novel only based on an outline by GNS or whatever? No, I don´t think so. Sorry.
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Post by carolinec on Apr 23, 2009 22:45:06 GMT
Reading this, I think the key issue is whether or not it's all upfront as to who's written what. If it is upfront - ie. the readers know what's written by GNS and what isn't - then there's no problem. If they want something written by the man himself (and I guess most fans would) then they've got the information there, they can buy that one and leave the ghostwritten stuff. If they're happy with ghostwritten stuff, fine, they can buy that too. Where I feel there's a problem is if it isn't upfront. If the readers are lead to believe by the marketing material that it is written by GNS when it isn't, then that's a con in my eyes. Oh and Ghostwriter (Neil, is it?), I might take you up on that offer of a review copy of the short story collection - but I'd feel the urge to write a review if I did. But if I didn't like it, I'd have to say so really. Would you want to risk that? I've recently surprised myself by finding that I enjoyed some Shaun Hutson shorts when I dislike what I've seen of his novels, so I might well enjoy GNS shorts too - you never know!
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Post by shaun Jeffrey on Apr 24, 2009 6:05:53 GMT
I don't think the Guy N Smith 'signature series' is a good idea - those writers would almost certainly sell at least as well, if not better, just published without that on the cover. Although it is still on the Ghostwriter website, I withdrew my novel, Fangtooth back on March 30th.
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Post by funkdooby on Apr 24, 2009 7:36:46 GMT
I don't think the Guy N Smith 'signature series' is a good idea - those writers would almost certainly sell at least as well, if not better, just published without that on the cover. Although it is still on the Ghostwriter website, I withdrew my novel, Fangtooth back on March 30th. For whatever my opinion is worth, I think you've done the right thing. Time will tell how all this GWP/GNS stuff pans out - but I have a feeling the ending won't be a happy one.
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antmusic
Crab On The Rampage
I am not Mmmmmaaaaaad!
Posts: 26
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Post by antmusic on Apr 24, 2009 17:29:41 GMT
Well... all in all... How many double bill titles are equally written by both contributors? I know some are written by one person, then sent to the other one for editing and maybe an added plot line of fleshed out a bit. I am certain that many are really "Book" By X based on the idea by Y. I am not saying that this is the way this book is.
Whatever the case may be, I will read it and most likely enjoy it. Especially, if it comes out as a part of a box set of hardcovers.... mmmm.
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