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Post by Steve on Mar 21, 2010 16:43:16 GMT
I would have suggested another architect, TG Jackson I feel largely responsible for this thread going a bit off topic as it was me who first mentioned D*** F****** in relation to Waterstones stocking and displaying Wordsworth Mystery & the Supernatural titles. So, having dragged things even further off topic in my post above (or below depending on where you read this), I'd like to try to make amends by agreeing that T. G. Jackson's Six Ghost Stories would certainly be right up my proverbial and a very welcome addition to my personal Wordsworth M&S collection. I'm wondering also if there'd be enough stuff in the public domain to put together a decent collection of Jamesian writers along similar lines to the long out of print Ghosts and Scholars book mentioned on various other thread recently. I'm not sure of their precise status in terms of copyright but there have been recent print-on-demand editions of both E. G. Swain's Stoneground Ghost Tales and Arthur Gray's Tedious Brief Tales of Granta and Gramarye which might suggest that they'd be doable. I think we've established that the likes of Malden, Munby and Rolt are all out of bounds at the moment, Frederick Cowles too, I believe and M.P. Dare, which is a shame (especially in the case of Dare as I'm gagging for a reasonably priced reprint of Unholy Relics) but there still might be enough stuff with those listed above - you could chuck in J. Meade Falkner's The Lost Stradivarius, which I'm pretty sure is out of copyright, and maybe recycle a few of the more Jamesian pieces already published in the Andrew Caldecott and Benson brothers collections. Might be worth thinking about, what do we reckon? Or, I don't know, how would some contemporary authors such as our own Daniel They That Dwell In Dark Places McGachey or James Doig - who I believe has contributed stories to G&S in the past - feel about Wordsworth publishing some of their work alongside older members of the James gang?
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Post by pulphack on Mar 21, 2010 17:35:03 GMT
sorry, steve, gonna drag it back off topic a bit...
absolutely - if dark fantasy is taken purely at a literally descriptive level, it's a great way to widen the field for wide eyed and new readers. just like when we wuz kids the SF section had everything from Elric to Asimov ('fanatsy' didn't really exist as section then, did it?). to digress silightly, although i wasn't that keen on Coppola's Dracula, i did like the fact that it wasn't horror so much as a gloomy romance - i wonder how many otherwise horror free readers gave it a go after seeing the film or seeing the tie-in editions (lets leave novelisations out of the argument!) in Smiths?
i guess the thing that stands in the way is the idiocy of the shops themselves - after all, this is how westerns died in the bookshops: western sales drooped like all p/b's. one rep started this rumour that the audience were old blokes who were dropping like flies. publishers listened and crapped themselves. chain buyers likewise. exit the western lines of most p/b publishers. thanks christ for libraries and Hale (cheapskate bastards though they may be). the fact that they still publish a fair few and get the sales means that the borrowers are there: either extremely old, or simply people of all ages that still like or are discovering the western, albeit in smaller numbers.
the rep story is one i've heard from several eighties/nineties writers and publishers, btw, so i have little reason to doubt it. but that may be because i, too, feel that the reps have disproportionate sway in influencing stocking and publishing policy, coming as they do in the centre of things. having said that, the reason M&B get in supermarkets is because their reps are so bloody good at it. can't get 'em anywhere else, mind...
but yes, as a marketing tool it could actually be a positive and eye-opening thing. both for seller, reader and even writer. unfortunately, most writers who use it as a label are everything you mention. and i wonder who has the worse opinion of that kind of person - you or me?
you? christ, it must be poor, considering what i think...
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Post by Steve on Mar 21, 2010 18:40:34 GMT
So we're agreed then? The Wordsworth Twilight Fantasy series is the way to go - same books, just different packaging. Just think how many more copies of The Beast With Five Fingers they could sell with a cover like this one;
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Post by andydecker on Mar 21, 2010 22:42:26 GMT
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Post by cw67q on Mar 22, 2010 9:12:36 GMT
Shouldn't the harvey revamp as shown have the appended subtitle:
"and one really meaty tentacle!"
?
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Post by cw67q on Mar 22, 2010 9:16:41 GMT
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Post by monker on Mar 22, 2010 12:44:25 GMT
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Post by cw67q on Mar 22, 2010 13:30:35 GMT
That's not bad Monker, the same price as another pb reprint of "Tedious brief tales" alone. TBT is the ultra-Jamesian ghost story with possibly the driest delivery style I've ever come across which makes these brief (and they mostly are brief) tales very dense reading. Where they come off, they hit hard (the Everlasting Club is my favourite, a great example of restraint hitting like a bludgeon), but sometimes so little explicitly happens that I found myself getting to the end of a story and wondering just how much of a story I'd missed between the lines (IYSWIM). - Chris (edited to get the name of the club correct )
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Post by dem bones on Mar 22, 2010 13:44:23 GMT
I'm wondering also if there'd be enough stuff in the public domain to put together a decent collection of Jamesian writers along similar lines to the long out of print Ghosts and Scholars book mentioned on various other thread recently. I'm not sure of their precise status in terms of copyright but there have been recent print-on-demand editions of both E. G. Swain's Stoneground Ghost Tales and Arthur Gray's Tedious Brief Tales of Granta and Gramarye which might suggest that they'd be doable. I think we've established that the likes of Malden, Munby and Rolt are all out of bounds at the moment, Frederick Cowles too, I believe and M.P. Dare, which is a shame (especially in the case of Dare as I'm gagging for a reasonably priced reprint of Unholy Relics) but there still might be enough stuff with those listed above - you could chuck in J. Meade Falkner's The Lost Stradivarius, which I'm pretty sure is out of copyright, and maybe recycle a few of the more Jamesian pieces already published in the Andrew Caldecott and Benson brothers collections. Might be worth thinking about, what do we reckon? Or, I don't know, how would some contemporary authors such as our own Daniel They That Dwell In Dark Places McGachey or James Doig - who I believe has contributed stories to G&S in the past - feel about Wordsworth publishing some of their work alongside older members of the James gang? i reckon that's a brilliant suggestion, not only do-able, but potentially a decent seller, too. Mark Valentine has shown the mix of public domain and new authors can work very well with his two Wordsworth antho's The Werewolf Pack and ... well, admittedly, i've not started The Black Veil yet, but i'd guess from the line up it's pretty readable. i'm thinking you should give this its own thread where we have a go at our own DIY Jamesian selections, kick some ideas around and all that? i'd also suggest that Derek & Co. sign you up sharpish as cover artwork consultant
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Post by cw67q on Mar 22, 2010 13:47:27 GMT
Hi Monker, I just reposted your info on another couple of discussion groups. Also the same publisher has a double collection of RH Benson at the same price point combining the Light Invisible and the Mirror of Shalott (see here): www.amazon.co.uk/Supernatural-Stories-Monsignor-Robert-Benson/dp/1616460040/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269264842&sr=1-32I quite enjoyed some of the RH Benson tales I've read in anthologies (although I tend to get ACB and RHB confused; EFB I manage to keep distinct :-)). I will add though that I found RHB's novel the Necromancers to be one of the most foul obnoxious diatribes of snobbery and bigotry that it has been my misfortune to read. So i'll niot be recommending that one, eh? - chris
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Post by dem bones on Mar 22, 2010 18:46:05 GMT
I'm sorry to say I did complete that stinker of a book, and in the edition under discussion. believe me it gets worse in the end, a horrible excercise in class bigotry masquerading as religious principle. Foul beyond mention. Best forgotten. Bester still unread. - Chris I will add though that I found RHB's novel the Necromancers to be one of the most foul obnoxious diatribes of snobbery and bigotry that it has been my misfortune to read. So i'll not be recommending that one, eh? - chris i knew it! slowly but surely you're warming to him. it won't be long now before The Necromancer has completely weaved it's spell over you.
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Post by pulphack on Mar 22, 2010 21:28:08 GMT
steve, you're a marketing genius. you decide whether that's an insult or not - i know i mean it as the highest compliment. (and anyway, it's hardly any different from Harlequins supernatural romance line!)
and as for the snobbish Benson - see, Dem's right, that's how the imp of the peverse gets you - how the hell else could anyone enjoy, for instance, dornford yates these days? (what do you mean, no one does!!)
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Post by cw67q on Mar 23, 2010 9:17:41 GMT
Ha ha I had forgotten that I'd already whined about this bugbear of mine here - chris I'm sorry to say I did complete that stinker of a book, and in the edition under discussion. believe me it gets worse in the end, a horrible excercise in class bigotry masquerading as religious principle. Foul beyond mention. Best forgotten. Bester still unread. - Chris I will add though that I found RHB's novel the Necromancers to be one of the most foul obnoxious diatribes of snobbery and bigotry that it has been my misfortune to read. So i'll not be recommending that one, eh? - chris i knew it! slowly but surely you're warming to him. it won't be long now before The Necromancer has completely weaved it's spell over you.
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Post by monker on Mar 23, 2010 13:45:26 GMT
I don't know, I find it hard to get cross over something that was written a century ago but then again, I tend to squib out if something offends me. I've very much been put off of the other two Benson brothers because of the didacticism (is that a word?) that's been attributed to them. It seems as good a way as any for keeping my reading matter down to manageable levels. Am I missing much?
By the way, Chris, what are the other two discussion groups that you mention, should I know about them?
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Post by cw67q on Mar 23, 2010 14:05:57 GMT
By the way, Chris, what are the other two discussion groups that you mention, should I know about them? Hi Monker, The other groups I had in mind were both on Yahoo: All Hallows groups.yahoo.com/group/All_Hallows/"Description A group for members of the Ghost Story Society and those interested in discussing ALL HALLOWS, classic ghost stories, those who write them, and much more. While this is primarily a group for members of The Ghost Story Society and readers of ALL HALLOWS, memberships will be approved for non-members, provided that a satisfactory identification or introduction is supplied. (We regret having to impose this restriction, but it is done in response to an unfortunate episode of internet vandalism.)" & Horrabinhall groups.yahoo.com/group/horrabin_hall/"Discussion of all topics related to weird fiction, Jamesian ghost fiction, supernatural thrillers, and even a smattering of classic SF. Tangentially related topics such as cinema, music, etc. are encouraged. " There is a lot of overlap in membership between both groups. Horrabinhall used to be the more active, but for the last couple of years All Hallows has been the busier. The rather serious sounding restriction in the All Hallows description is a reflection of some previous bad blood and attempts to disrupt the group rather than a more general elitism. Here are another couple (or so) of yahoo groups that might interest people: Caermaen (an arthur machen based group associated with FOAM, you might recognise some regular posters here on this grouop :-)): uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/Caermaen/?yguid=160738518"The mailing list of the Friends of Arthur Machen, a society based in the UK devoted to the Welsh writer Arthur Machen, his works and life. Although the list is mainly devoted to Machen, discussion of other related topics of interest to Machenphiles will also be welcome. These obviously include weird, decadent and gothic writings in general, covering such writers as Lord Dunsany, de la Mare, Stevenson, Wilde, Lovecraft, Blackwood and others. Other topics of possible interest would be the fin-de-siecle, Arthuriana, Forteana, the Occult, psychogeographical analysis, mystical musings on the nature of reality, and of course consideration of the true nature of taverns. "Thin and strange, mingled together, the voices came up to him on the hill; it was as if an outland race inhabited the ruined city and talked in a strange language of strange and terrible things." For more details on Machen's life and his Friends go to the link to the society website below." Occult Detection (a recently formed, rather self explanatory group): groups.yahoo.com/group/OCCULTDETECTION/?yguid=160738518"This group is for discussion of Occult Detectives/Ghost Breakers / Psychic Detectives and Doctors / Occult Archeologists / Occult Warriors in fictional stories in books, comics, cinema, and television---Ralph G" and here are a couple of other low traffic sites based around single authors: WHHodgson: groups.yahoo.com/group/WHHodgson/?yguid=160738518"This discussion group is devoted to the work of William Hope Hodgson, author of of such cosmic horror classics as THE HOUSE ON THE BORDERLAND and THE NIGHT-LAND. We are interested in serious discussion of themes in Hodgson's works and ways in which the public can be made more knowledgeable about this periodically forgotten-about author." and Blackwood: groups.yahoo.com/group/Blackwood/?yguid=160738518"The list for discussion of Algernon Blackwood, his life and writings. All are welcome." But i think the best archives for searching for book recomendations remains alt.books.ghost-fiction. The older messages can be searched via google groups, their search engine works much bettre than the crappy one at yahoo. But the group unfortunately died a number of years ago due to unstoppable flame war/feuds (leading directly to horrabinhall and All Hallows beind set up) Cheers - Chris
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